Intergrate or Surrender..?

[BENIDORM]

I get a bit 'fed up' of being told I have to integrate, to live in Spain.....Yes I do believe that everyone should mix with Spanish people and learn the language, and adhere to the rules, regulations and laws of the country....However I have no desire to become Spanish, never have and never will..!..
I'm British, born and bred and proud of it.....
I agree that there are problems living in the UK, but aren't there problems everywhere....?...I've suffered from numerous thefts etc, in Spain but very little in the UK, and anyone who tells you that it is completely safe in Spain is telling 'porkies'
I mix freely with all nationalities and meet up several times a week with other Brits....So is that a 'clique'...I think not, .......I enjoy the company of fellow Brits, and chatting in my 'mother tongue'...who doesn't ?
I believe strongly that all foreigners to Spain should be able to spend time with their compatriots, without being told that they are not 'integrating'..You really don't have to renounce your birthright to live in harmony with Spanish people...

[Alan-LaCala]

What's caused this little rant then?

Alan

[BENIDORM]

Alan,
Yes, sorry, you are correct, I was 'ranting ' a bit ......I received an email from someone criticising me for trying to 'organise' little groups of Brits, here and there, with the aim of helping people to settle in to a new country..And I'm constantly being told how wonderful it is to live in Spain etc., and how rubbish it is in UK....Well I've lived and worked in Spain for many years, and I never found it that easy, but I still think it is a great place to live, but likewise UK, I really don't think that it is that bad a place to live in either....I'm at my base in UK for a few months ...by the way.....
Anyway , before I start 'ranting' again, I'll wish everyone a 'pleasant weekend', and I'll go and pour myself a large drink..! ..Cheers.....

[Retro P]

Couldn't agree more Benidorm, usually it's the idiots who tell you that when in Spain you should integrate, speak Spanish etc, who you will find reading the Sur in English and logging onto sites such as this, generally because they don't have any Spanish friends, so much for integration!

[katy]

I don't know anyone who I could say is truly integrated although many who say they are. Some think they are accepted if the local bar owner pats them on the back and says "Hola amigo"! Even far inland the Brits all tend to bunch together (I am not saying this is wrong you pay your money and take your choice. Many start-up or join legion clubs etc. why not? the Dutch, Swedish and German do the same) For a start most people are not fluent enough and the Spanish do not socialise in the same way as the Brits. I have a friend, married a spaniard 20 years ago and although you may say she is fully integrated and bi-lingual, she says she often feels like an outsider. I think many spanish are not keen to mix anyway, especially if it means sitting for a few hours making stilted conversation with Brits. Just ask yourself if you would want to spend your night in the pub having a few word conversation with a Polish person while all your friends are discussing local politics or the footy

[pete_l]

I get a bit 'fed up' of being told I have to integrate, to live in Spain.....

I agree. I've never understood this integration thing - what do people actually mean?

I've never felt the need to "integrate" with my neighbourhood in the UK. I've lived where I live for nearly 20 years and I'm pretty choosey about who I mix with. Most of the people I've got to know here are simply neighbours: people I can say "hello" to and ask about their jobs, but I don't feel the need to be friends with them. Why should it be any different in Spain?

As it turns out, if you live in a (spanish) area that has a lot of british residents/visitors I can see nothing wrong with "integrating" with them. Yes you do need a certain amount of spanish language to get on - like talking to people at the town hall and getting things done, but that's got nothing to do with being accepted by the spanish part of the population. Personally I reckon that so long as they don't spit at me on the street, or "key" my car the local people have accepted me as much as anyone else.

If you have a deeply felt need to know that everyone likes you, well, fine. But that doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.

Do whatever you feel is right

Pete

[Cape Blue]

It's strange how many people in the UK like to complain about foreigners not integrating though, Muslims seem to be the flavor of the day to be picked upon at the moment. I don't see the Polish, Chinese or Muslims in the UK wanting to spend time with similar people as any different than Brits in Spain.

[detourer]

Muslims seem to be the flavor of the day to be picked upon at the moment.

That was a joke of course........................

[Cape Blue]

No - it seems to me that they are the current boogeyman for the media to beat up on for now.

[detourer]

Silly me.......I hadn't realised that not ALL terrorist attacks were carried out by Muslims

Yesterday was two years since 7/7.......Muslim. Last week was 3 attacks. Muslim. last week prison sentences for attempts, Muslim. Attempts on up to 10 airlines, Muslim. Shoe bomber, Muslim. 9/11, Muslim etc etc etc. How many terror cells [Muslim] have been broken up in Spain.

And it is an Andalusian problem...........Bin Laden recently referred to the "Andalusian Tragedy".................Meaning they [Muslim] want it back.

Of course the VAST MAJORITY of Muslims are peace loving and just want to get on with their lives, without having their religion hi-jacked. But for God's sake wake up and look at what is going on around you

But of course those views make me a "Bigot".......simplistic stock answer.

[laclotte]

.... those views make me a "Bigot".

Yes .... you said it

[detourer]

But of course laclotte......what do I know.......being a Bigot who has had a house in Southern Morocco for 15 years, worked and run a Moroccan based business for 27 years, speaks Arabic [modern and classic] and Berber, employs 6 Moroccans full time [in Morocco], one of the few "Westerners" I know who have actually read and studied the Koran, "embraced" Islam for a number of years.......etc etc.

The term "Bigot" is often used by those who are ill-informed and bankrupt of knowledge.......it save them putting forward a plausible point

[spanish hopes]

The term "Bigot" is often used by those who are ill-informed and bankrupt of knowledge.......it save them putting forward a plausible point

To quote someone else...........Yes .... you said it

[laclotte]

... employs 6 Moroccans full time [in Morocco
The term "Bigot" is often used by those who are ill-informed and bankrupt of knowledge.......it save them putting forward a plausible point

I guess this was a simple spelling mistake and you actually mean 'exploits 6 Moroccans...'

Having lectured at an Indian university in the apartheid times of SA, where 90% of my students were Muslims, being declared an honourary Indian, with my knowledge of the Koran etc.etc. I certainly feel qualified to confirm your 'bigot' remark about yourself.

[pete_l]

Silly me.......I hadn't realised that not ALL terrorist attacks were carried out by Muslims
...
But of course those views make me a "Bigot".......simplistic stock answer.

There's an interesting piece here about why most suicide bombers are muslim. More specifically: young, male muslims. The writers agree it's not politically correct, but they do offer explainations a lot of other non PC things, too.

You don't have to agree with the reasoning, but it's worth a read

[Cassandra]

I feel really sorry for the thousands of decent, ordinary people who are being vilified because of the religion they were born into. Brings back very unhappy memories of having so-called friends turn on me at the time of the IRA bombings in Birmingham just because I happen to have an Irish surname. It wasn't a good time to be either Catholic or Irish

[annie_d]

Thanks for that pete...very interesting to read.

[BENIDORM]

Seem to have a leak in my subject, there are terrorists all over my posting, I think they are coming in from the posting next door, I must have a word with the landlord

Anyway...back to my original rantings......I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who dislikes the meaning of integration...I believe it's all about respect.....as a foreigner in Spain I believe that I should respect the Spanish culture and customs and not do anything that would draw adverse attention to me......And I would expect Spaniards to respect that I'm British, and in return understand that we also have different culture and customs....Both cultures have a lot to offer each other, and to be honest I do believe that the Spaniards who I know, do show me respect....
So I am quite happy to continue in my efforts to bring expats together, in an attempt to help people feel happy and secure in their new environment....

[detourer]

How, laclotte, does employ become confused with "exploits"? A twist of words that rather says more about you than me and the World you must live in

With only about 2% of the population in SA being Muslim and only half that number of Indian origin you must have lectured to them all

[annie_d]

What is an "honourary Indian"?