I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

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BENIDORM
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I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby BENIDORM » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:04 pm

At the moment I'm back in the UK assisting my Wife with her retail therapy,and I'm having to trudge around the streets like a pack horse carrying dozens of Christmassy carrier bags for 'Her who shall be obeyed' .
Well that's fine, I'm well trained and always do as I'm told, however I find that I always seem to be stuck behind someone who is belching out evil, foul smelling smoke....Now don't get me wrong, I've nothing against smokers, but I've always been a non-smoker and have allergic asthma, so obviously I do my best to avoid contact with 'smoke clouds'...So what can I do about it?
Well I could stay in , or I could walk around town with one of my Government Surplus gas masks on, but no..all I have to do is go into a local pub...plenty of clean fresh air, with a delightful aroma of fresh ground coffee.. :shock: ...but you know what ..? No character, boring and just not like it used to be...Non-smoker or not...give me the old days back..I can always go and sit in the corner , near the window...like I used to do. :wink:

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Gordon...with empty wallet... :(

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby Wicksey » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:22 pm

Can't agree with you there, Beni, about the pubs. On recent visits to the UK that has been the one thing that is now a pleasure - to be able to sit in a smoke-free pub or restaurant .... we rarely went in pubs before as they just stank and so did we when we came out. It is a real novelty for us to be able to enjoy going into a lovely, old, country pub and sit by the log fire ..... just a shame the beer is so expensive :cry: .

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby BENIDORM » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:58 pm

Wicksey,
Of course I do really agree with your point of view, but my point was that a pub is no longer a pub, and so many are closing down from lack of customers.
We called in a local pub this morning...8 people in there, 6, including us were drinking coffee, it really was more like a coffee bar than a licenced pub...The buzz and banter was definitely missing...Seems a shame in some ways...

Regards,
Gordon

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby Paula » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:09 pm

It is a shame, and they are closing down all over the place. Seems the government are doing nothing to help them at all. The smoking ban has really hurt a lot of them. Of course there are some that are more restaurants than pubs and they seem to be doing ok, in their case the smoking ban may well have helped. Its a shame they didn't allow the others that are not trying to be restaurants, to keep a smoking bar.
I suppose you have to also take into account that years back when pubs were busy, many were drinking and driving :shock:

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby mirandamac » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:47 pm

We rarely used to go in pubs, because of the smoke - again, nothing against smokers, just didn't like going home with clothes and hair smelling of the smoke. We do now go into pubs for meals. On Sat we met up with people in a pub, which apart from the smoke, was very much as it would have been 10 years ago. It's not the sort of pub we'd normally go to and we won't go again (food was not too good) but between 1.45 and 3 on a Saturday afternoon it was busy.
I take your point about the traditional pub Gordon but pubs today have to do what they can to attract different trade. But there are a few around still with the log fires etc etc and don't forget, even if they're serving coffee, YOU don't have to drink it!! My daughter commented the other day that pubs now smell of stale beer and stale people which used to be masked by the smoke!

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby tjtops » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:57 pm

The smoking ban has really hurt a lot of them.
I don't think the ban has hurt them at all.......I think it has RUINED them!!!
I am a non smoker (and also asthma sufferer) but surely it is my choice whether I go into a smoky environment or not? As it is, I think the ban has completely spoiled the pub atmosphere by dividing social groups into 'clean' and 'unclean.' By treating all smokers as 'unclean' and banishing them to the great outdoors has only served to drive people away from pubs in their droves. In one town I know in Northern Ireland (and I'm sure many more too) it is against the law to smoke in the pubs, but also against the law to drink in the street. So people now have three options: 1, to leave their drinks inside while they go outside for a cig -- surely a highly dangerous practice in this day and age; 2, down their drink 'in one' and then go outside for a cig, before returning inside for another drink -- encouraging binge drinking, IMHO; or 3, to buy drink (MUCH more cheaply) from the local supermarkets and take it to a friend's house where they can enjoy a leisurely evening and good craic -- this is becoming more the norm now, at the expense of many pub businesses which had been going for generations.
As with so many other things, I think it is nanny state gone mad and to watch the effect it is having on the licensed trade is heartbreaking. I beg to offer that this absurd law has not saved one single 'smoking-related' life but has ruined hundreds. Thank goodness there is still n element of choice over here!
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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby Lavanda » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:10 pm

Well put, tjtops. Well put.

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby mirandamac » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:16 pm

Whilst I have to agree that it was previously my choice whether to go into a smoky pub or not, I am enjoying having a wider choice of places to go now. The worst thing about the smoking ban to me is the numbers gathered at the doors of pubs that don't have a smoking shelter. Apart from having to fight your way in through the haze, the mess is often awful.
I think pubs just have to move with the times and attract different people. But the pub I was in on Saturday was clearly doing very well despite not being much of a food pub - still getting in the customers who have probably gone there for years.

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby mirandamac » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:20 pm

Whilst I have to agree that it was previously my choice whether to go into a smoky pub or not, I am enjoying having a wider choice of places to go now. The worst thing about the smoking ban to me is the numbers gathered at the doors of pubs that don't have a smoking shelter. Apart from having to fight your way in through the haze, the mess is often awful.
I think pubs just have to move with the times and attract different people. But the pub I was in on Saturday was clearly doing very well despite not being much of a food pub - still getting in the customers who have probably gone there for years. Some seemed to be there to watch the sport, despite the smoking ban. So not all the traditional pubs have been ruined and we've had trouble getting into a couple of 'food' pubs for meals recently, they've been so busy.

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby Lavanda » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:45 pm

Another one of my short contributions:

This debate, like fox-hunting, kids playing conkers in playgrounds, people wearing seat-belts, motor-bikers wearing crash hats, etc, has positive and negative sides and I can debate both sides with equal conviction and passion. However, all of it is complete nonsense, to me, as all of these issues relate to personal choice. If lots of people are smoking in a pub and I am a non-smoker (I AM a non-smoker) then I can choose not to go in. I don't expect everyone to dance to my tune or cater for my personal preference. I can decide for myself what to do.

A true story: A woman of the Islamic Faith got a job working in an Art College. She applied for the job of her own free will and understood what sort of place she would be working in. A week after starting work she demanded that all life drawings and life studies be removed from the walls of the studios and life classes be banned as she was offended by them.

No one forced her to apply for the job but it was her right to do so if she wished but, equally, it was the right of the students to study from life and the right of the teachers to teach life studies. Whose rights take priority? I don't know but perhaps the majority? Perhaps the people who were 'there' first? Perhaps she should have exercised her common sense rather than her rights and not applied for the job?

I prefer non-smoking environments but while I might hope a restaurant is a non-smoking place I simply don't expect a pub to be a non-smoking environment. Restaurants are places to consume food and pubs are DENS OF INIQUITY. Yes. It's a joke, but do you see what I mean. They are different (even though pubs do food etc.) I still think tjtops has got the wider picture just about balanced.

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby tjtops » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:53 pm

and in turn Lavanda, VERY well put!
The increasing constraints of the nanny state and the inexorable march of the PC brigade were the main (and probably only :lol: ) reasons why I allowed myself to be persuaded to move over here in the first place....they STILL make my blood boil!!!!
Vive la difference!
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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby tjtops » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:08 am

PS....I just hope that the people responsible for rearing a whole generations of kids who will have NO sense of personal responsibility whatsoever -- much less be able to make decisions for themselves -- are around to see the monster they have created. Sadly, I have already seen too many kids who, having done something perfectly 'normal', childish and/or silly -- for example tripped and fallen over because they weren't looking where they were going -- look for someone to sue rather than hold themselves responsible for simple carelessness! And, what is possibly worse, their parents back them up....AAARRGHHHH..... :roll:
Two other point to ponder: in my erstwhile world of horse shows etc, it is inevitable that, sometimes, kids fall off ponies. It's a fact of life..and equally a fact of life is that at least one of the judges or officials will usually go to the child and offer comfort, long before the St John get there. Oh no....not any more, unless they have been cleared by CRB (Criminal Records Bureau).......so the child remains in full public view, alone, embarassed and in tears without a single friendly shoulder to cry on...
And a couple of years ago, an extremely bright GCSE student who had the misfortune to break her ankle was barred from school (just prior to exams) because......wait for it.......other children might trip and fall over her plaster!!! (True, I promise).
PPS..Lavanda's mention of the conker fiasco started that rant off!!! :oops:
Life is as good as you make it, just keep my glass half full

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby Marj » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:06 am

On the "smoking" topic, I would like to congratulate Malaga Airport for retaining "the voice of reason" and continuing to provide a "Smoking room" in their departure lounge. This room does not affect any non-smoker. There is no need for them to enter. Well done Malaga Airport. I just wish airports in the U.K. would follow your sensible and reasonable example! Which is fair to all, including non-smokers.
Marj

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby beachbabe » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:01 am

If people can nip out for a "physical necessity" why can't they nip out for a fag?

The main reason for the ban is not to protect non-smokers but to REDUCE SMOKING. Quite a few smokers end their days with prolonged chronic and debilitating illnesses which cost the "interfering nanny, muslim loving, PC state" substantially more than their NI contributions, and use resource which could be more usefully deployed fighting non voluntary illness.

No one minds you smoking - just do it outside. You wouldn't pee in the corner of a bar would you? To some the smell is just as offensive.

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby BENIDORM » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:48 am

I can see both sides of the 'arguments' about smoking, I have NEVER smoked and find it totally repulsive, however I can understand the plight of smokers, and I don't like to see them treated like lepers.
And to be honest , to me, it doesn't seem to be really detering anyone by preventing smoking in pubs , I agree that it is not acceptable in the workplace or public areas where everyone has to congregate, but I'm not sure about pubs, although I must admit I thought it to be a good idea in the beginning.
I've just had a great time in Berlin staying with friends who do not smoke cigarettes, but they smoke cigars, both my friend and his Wife !. They belong to a cigar club, which has both ladies and gents sections, and they have always held their meetings at a well known, very old exclusive hotel in the heart of Berlin, but despite the hotel having a smoking room, complete with a walk-in humidor, they have been to told that they are no longer welcome. I have been to several of the meetings and thoroughly enjoyed mixing with people from all walks of life, all smoking cigars,and it didn't bother me in the slightest..What I'm trying to point out is that I chose to go where there were people smoking ,I had the choice...unfortunately the cigar group no longer has that option, and are even talking about closing the club. In my opinion that would be a shame.
There are lots of other issues that I'm not happy about, and I really don't like having to conform to lots of petty regulations...Still I've always been a rebel... :lol:

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby Colinm » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:07 pm

I think Ireland was one of the first countries to 'ban smoking' in March 2004. However, we must remember that it was not smoking per se, that was banned, but 'smoking within a confined work place'.
How many remember the times when the upstairs of a double decker bus, was the smoking area? If you went upstairs you knew you would be met by a wall of blue smoke at the top of the stairs and you made your choice as to whether to go upstairs or stay downstairs. The bus conductor did not have that choice! He (or she) had to go upstairs through the smoke to collect fares, whether they were a smoker or not. What about the 'back-end of the aircraft for smokers? the trolley dollies had to cope with the smoke whether they smoked or not. Likewise with bar staff, should non smoking bar staff be subject to the noxious fumes of smoke within their working environment?
I have no difficulty with people who want to smoke, but not within a confined space.

just a thought, does smoking contribute to global warming?
ádh mór ort agus sláinte.....
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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby Paula » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:08 pm

beachbabe wrote:If people can nip out for a "physical necessity" why can't they nip out for a *beep*?

The main reason for the ban is not to protect non-smokers but to REDUCE SMOKING. Quite a few smokers end their days with prolonged chronic and debilitating illnesses which cost the "interfering nanny, muslim loving, PC state" substantially more than their NI contributions, and use resource which could be more usefully deployed fighting non voluntary illness.

No one minds you smoking - just do it outside. You wouldn't pee in the corner of a bar would you? To some the smell is just as offensive.
This argument can be used in so many scenarios.Thugs that may not smoke, but cause fights every weekend, resulting in a constant drain of resources of emergency services, A&E etc etc. The list is endless. Makes it a pointless argument in my opinion.
I don't smoke, but did in the past for a long time. I don't like people smoking when I am eating etc and think that non smoking in restaurants is a good thing. I was of that opinion when I was a smoker. But I am very much against the holier than thou brigade that think smokers are lesser beings, and have no right to smoke anywhere.
I've been in bars, pubs and restaurants whereby the language and actions of another person have been far more offensive than someone lighting a cigarette.

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby beachbabe » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Makes it a pointless argument in my opinion.
No its not!

You stop those objectionable things which are easily stoppable (smoking in the face of non-smokers, for example).

You then move on to reduce those things which are less easily stoppable (thugs, in your example).

The only pointless argument is to allow all objectionable behaviour to continue ad infinitum.

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby Paula » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:55 pm

As i said it's a pointless argument, in my opinion

What you consider to be objectionable could have been sorted by having smoking and non smoking areas, rather than sod all the smokers they have no rights. I'm talking about the likes of pubs etc, not trains and planes etc where there is no choice for a non smoker.

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Re: I'm Just Nipping Inside for a Breath of Fresh Air.

Postby Devils Advocate » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:05 pm

Talking of offensive smells, if smokers are banned from planes they should make lardy people contaminating the air with putrid BO after 2 hours at Malaga airport get dipped in a sheep bath :evil:


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