Negative Vibes

[tjtops]

We live in an absurdly materialistic society and we have totally forgotten that above having a roof over our head (not a luxury villa) and a plate of food, then everything else is a luxury, and things we want, not things we need.

Couldn't agree more.....I was brought up on the need v want argument.....as you say, a roof, food to eat and clothes to keep warm....that's about it.
And also don't forget that it might not just be the borrowers who are in trouble....just because someone is debt-free doesn't mean there is food on the table.......
But hey, this is supposed to be the lace for happy thoughts!!

[Paula]

The thought of just a roof over my head and food on the table doesn't fill me with happiness I'm afraid Did it when I was a kid, and don't particularly want to do it now

[julian]

I think you just proved what I am trying to say Paula.

[katy]

What is wrong with buying things that are not needed? as long as it is paid for with their own money (and they do not expect the Government to help bail them out) Bit hypocritical to sit here spouting psuedo Karl Marx theories whilst using expensive broadband etc.

[Lavanda]

... don't think that was Karl Marx ... might be the person whose birthday we are about to celebrate ...

[Paula]

I think you just proved what I am trying to say Paula.

I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say, so I don't really know what I have proved

People will always want and strive for more than a roof over their head and food on their table. It's no different from you taking a lorry load of donated toys to Morocco, the kids don't need the toys but you want to take them, and they get enjoyment from them. No harm in that is there.

[Lavanda]

Isn't it better to teach the kids the skills to amuse themselves and play games with each other without 'toys' or they will end up like SOME children from 'rich' countries, short attention spans, no communication skills, no concept about what sharing means, restless, no imagination, unhappy and always wanting 'the next thing'. Ghastly!

[katy]

... don't think that was Karl Marx ... might be the person whose birthday we are about to celebrate ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_ ... o_his_need

Same stuff, different búll shítter.

I agree about the toys Lavenda. Remember the e-mail from an aid worker that was doing the rounds after one appeal (FGS don't send anymore f/cking teddy bears)

[julian]

Paula, I´m trying to point out that we, and I include myself, are no longer happy when we have what we need...we are wrapped up in a society that is ruled by clever advertising and marketing, and we now find that we want and buy things that we hadn´t even heard of a couple of years ago.
Katy, you are right, there is nothing wrong with buying things we don´t need, as long as later on,if and when we run out of money we don´t moan about the state we have got ourselves into, or moan that we can´t pay a mortgage when we didn´t really need such an expensive property in the first place.
the way people live up to their eyes in debt buying things that are not really neccessary seems strange to me, fair enough to buy things on credit that we need,like food, but if it´s to buy a luxury then maybe it would be best to wait till we have earnt enough to buy it.
talking of Morocco do you know who have the happiest faces there? well, it´s precisely those that have the least, and they are the ones whose only aim is to find a plate of food for their kids by the end of the day, the people with the happiest faces are the nomads in the desert, just living in a tent, no tv, no advertising, they are not brainwashed like us into thinking they need things that are actually luxuries.
I wasn´t being hypocritical katy, I include myself as being someone who buys things I do not need, but you don´t hear me later moaning if I can´t afford to pay my bills or if my earnings have gone down due to the crisis.

[julian]

Lavanda, we mainly take secondhand ,clothes, shoes , blankets , colouring books etc and we buy certain food there locally which we take to the nomads, but I don´t think the odd cuddly toy will do the kids to much harm.

[spanish hopes]

For many years, just after the fall of the despot regime, I took aid to a Romanian orphanage for babies/ toddlers. Many others did too, supplying various establishments and usually there were lorries filled to the brim with second hand tat.
After our first visit we determined to only take good and necessary aid, i.e. Medecines, Cleaning materials etc. However, in the spaces on our vehicle which we always had, we would pack out with bags of hand knitted teddy bears.
What these toys actually did was give a child a constant. For many years they had a minimum of low quality, poor condition toys. A child would naturally become attached even to these toys and were heart broken when they moved on to their next home and had to leave the toys behind for others.
With whe Teddy Bears we supplied they could keep their toy as they moved, (a constant). I have met some of the children we had helped in those early days as they entered adulthood and in many cases their most loved possession was the teddy which had been their first possession.

Carry on Julian, your toys will not make the children turn into the spoilt little monsters we have created in the so called civilised world.

[Bongtrees]

Isn't it better to teach the kids the skills to amuse themselves and play games with each other without 'toys' or they will end up like SOME children from 'rich' countries, short attention spans, no communication skills, no concept about what sharing means, restless, no imagination, unhappy and always wanting 'the next thing'. Ghastly!

All of the behaviours you have highlighted are free and available to rich and poor alike.

Would a starving child share his food, share a toy ? I doubt it.

The hypothetical child from a not rich country could also be restless, unhappy, have no imagination, lack communication skills etc etc.

My kids had everything as do my grandchildren, they also know how to amuse themselves without the aid of expensive ¨toys¨. They can and have been angels and monsters as well. They would have turned out the same irrespective of how much was or was not spent on them.

It is not the possession of loads of toys that is the problem with rich kids.

[julian]

I remember once in Morocco when we had just handed out all the shoes, suddenly another child appeared and there were no shoes left for her, one of the children took off one of the shoes we had just given to her and gave it to the girl who had just appeared and said they could have one each !!
anyway I think I have single handedly highjacked this topic, sorry.

[katy]

The fact is that not all "rich" kids are spoilt brats. Many comfortable (for want of a better word)parents try to install values, respect for others. Seems to me that it is the very poor (ie. unemployed) who are obsessed with buying designer gear for their kids, the latest X-box, TV etc. (and will get into debt to buy it) Many 25,000 a year public schools in the UK do not allow designer stuff.

When I worked in the charity business (make no mistake they are businesses!) many of the third-world countries never got the things donated they really needed, sometimes just simple things, chalk for the blackboard, Asprins and other drugs etc. We visited one village in Africa and some charity had donated 5 computers and printers without any thought to electric supply, printer cartridges, paper or tuition for the one schoolteacher who had never used one. When I lived in Africa I used to take suitcases of stuff back, if shoes didn't fit them they just cut the backs out, all our things were re-cycled even to the tin cans which were washed and taken back to the villages for drinking.

It is sad but happiness is relative too.