non payment of community charges.

[princess peach]

We have just had a yearly letter that gives names and addresses aplus amounts outstanding on community fees.The amount owing from 47 properties and owners total 26,300 euros.
I am not at all happy,as although we cant really afford to pay the fees,we do.
What can be done about this,what will happen to these bad payers eventually.?

[Paula]

This is becoming more and more of a problem. Where we have our rental apartments is in the same situation, and basically not a lot does get done!! Depends on what your President has set up for non payment, like how long before he takes the owners to court. That is costly aswell and of course again comes out of your community fees. Our apartment community is about to take one owner to court that hasn't paid for 2 years. There are others that usually make some form of payment just before the AGM. If yours is a fairly new community the important thing is that the Administrators and President are handling it efficiently as in sending out letters and contacting the non paying owners.
There isn't a great deal you can do but you are at liberty to ask the administrators how it is being handled. If The president is not handling it to the owners satisfaction you can call an EGM to discuss the way forward.
That total would I guess only average out to one lot of quarterly community fees per each of the 47 non payers?
Until you get an individual owing a lump it's unlikely they will go the court route. Thats a lot of slow payers!! Is it a very large community?

[princess peach]

No,it isnt a large communtiy really.
Makes me feel a proper mug for paying mine for the last 1.5 years,when quite a few people havent paid it at all.

[Devils Advocate]

Have they named and shamed the bums?

[Paula]

We have just had a yearly letter for our Urb that gives names and addresses aplus amounts outstanding on community fees.

Sounds like it. They usually always do, but in my experience habitual non payers are not embarrassed by that, they are usually the ones you will find sunbathing at the pool. What really annoys me is we have had quite a few non payers that rent their homes out to holiday renters, pocketing the rent, but not paying fees.
All that happens is you can't vote at an AGM, that's a big deterrent

[princess peach]

yes,they certainly have named and shamed them.Im pleased about that.

[gus]

As far as what can be done,......
As I understand it, it is a relatively straightforward act for the President to obtain a "charge" against the properties ensuring they cannot be sold until the debt is cleared!

Gus

[princess peach]

But then in the next breath Gus,if you have a decent lawyer when purchasing the property the lawyer should ensure these debts are paid by the seller before the exchange goes ahead anyway.
So in other words,if you dont pay your community fees,no one gives a toss.The only thing is when it comes to selling the property the debt should be paid in full before completetion.
So no punishment whatsoever!
Think i might cancel my direct debit for my Urb fees. seems a complete waste of time!

[julian]

I think the notary needs a certificate from the president stating there are no community fee debts to be able to do the escritura

[princess peach]

yes,its something like that isnt it..I cant really remember what happens.

[beachbabe]

Is there no such thing as a small claims court . Can the locks be changed (i suppose not)

[Pink Lady]

Hi PP, We have had exactly the same problems in our community, people hadn't paid for two years! We had a rubbish Administrador that sorted out nothing (basically were chosen by the Developer as they were buddies), at the AGM last year the few of us that turned up voted to change the Administrador and thank god we did. They firstly named and shamed all of the non-payers, they were advised that interest was being added to outstanding payments, they were given 30 days to pay and then they were sent a solicitors letter stating that they would be taken to court if the payments were not made. Funnily enough after a couple of months 95% of residents had paid up!! I can also confirm that any out standing community fees have to paid in full before a property can be sold, two of my neighbours didn't realise this when they sold their property, they had abit of a shock - hahahaha serves them right!

[frog]

well i had a shock today,my bank now charges 3 euros for the direct debit so i am paying 52 a month instead of 49(it was 41 last year since they got rid of me and my south african neighbour that used to look after pool and grounds)so i am stopping my payments as from tommorow,will pay in lump sum at end of year,problem is,we are 11 houses and the spanish really need to pay someone 1500 euros a year to do their maths/and 100 euros a month for spanish to do garden/pool
racist if you ask me

we did a better job for nothing really,when we moved here,my mate sorted pool,i sorted garden, as soon as it was ok,bang we got the sack,now the pool is good(thanks to my sa mate) the garden is good(thanks to me)but after missing a meeting.....

can you say the 'c' word here?with an s on the end

spanish sit on there backsides,grab grab grab

maybe im angry that we lost the footy

[princess peach]

well,i have just found out that the last president,got plastic keyrings made, at a charge of 1,341 euros.
also,he painted an area ,paint was 500 euros and he paid himself 3,450.00 out of the community money to paint it.dont get me wrong..the area is large,but there are only four walls,and they are only head height.
I wouldve done it for 1,000.

[Miro]

Unfortunately, you cannot legally ban non-payers from using community facilities (pool etc.)Seems wrong, but you can't take the law into your own hands if you want to use the law to recover any debts. The courts are the only recourse when there are large outstanding amounts from individual owners, and yes, it can take ages.
If, however, as Paula suggested, the bulk of the debt is made up of many late payers rather than a few big debtors, one way to discourage late payers in the future is by increasing everyone's fees by 25%, then offering a 20% discount to those who pay by DD, or within the first week of each trimester, for example. This way, perpetual late payers will actually pay a premium (eventually!)and it's perfectly legal.

[ashtondav]

Our apartment community is about to take one owner to court that hasn't paid for 2 years.

I have just received the agenda for our annual meeting. One owner has paid nothing for his garage for 4 years. Amount over €800. Another has never paid his annual fees for 5 years and owes over €500.

my question is this. When does it become worthwhile (financially) to start issuing solicitors letters and court proceedings.

Naming, shaming and letter writing has produced nothing.

I am interested in anyone who has a firm, practical and based on experience idea of what the costs are, and how much we should therefore put in the budget next year for legal fees.

[julian]

[ashtondav]

Sorry. The main culprit is Spanish.

Does no one really have any experience of pursuing a debtor in Spain using Spanish law and the costs and approximate timescales for so doing.

I would really appreciate some help.

(But i'm really intrigued by your method...)

[Paula]

I'm going to an AGM in the community where we own a couple of apartments next week. The community is owed near 30K at the moment from non payers!! A couple of people owe over 3k. It is on the Agenda to start legal proceedings etc etc, at least on the larger debts. It will be discussed at great length with the administrators and lawyer who will be at the meeting. If I glean anything worth knowing I shall pass it on Ashtondav.

[ashtondav]

I'm going to an AGM in the community where we own a couple of apartments next week. The community is owed near 30K at the moment from non payers!! A couple of people owe over 3k. It is on the Agenda to start legal proceedings etc etc, at least on the larger debts. It will be discussed at great length with the administrators and lawyer who will be at the meeting. If I glean anything worth knowing I shall pass it on Ashtondav.

Paula I would be most grateful, especially if they give any indication of timescale. I am at our AGM next month.

Thanks again.