Britain referendum now

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annfoto
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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby annfoto » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:56 pm

Before we go rushing off into wondering how this may affect Scotland's bid for independence we should perhaps pause and consider whether the Euro is saved or not.
All that was agreed was a theoretical way in how the Euro could work in the future if everyone agrees, and there is no guarantee that they will.
It doesn't solve the immediate problem of how Spain & Italy are going to repay their debt, all it does is promise 10 years of austerity and misery for most Eurozone countries which will reduce their GDP and increase their debt.
They have kicked the can down the road again and bought some time probably hoping for a quiet festive season. It may last that long but will blow up by early January at the latest. The UK and David Cameron will get the blame for the implosion. Already the ill-mannered arrogance of some of Europe's most senior politicians is astounding when it is the Eurozone that has the begging bowl out not Britain.
If the Europoliticos are that clever why are their sovereigns borrowing at north of 6 per cent in some cases. Answers on a postcard please. :wink:
Ann

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby Mowser » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:00 pm

Hmmm ... "Just like Sweden, Scotland would have the right to decide whether and when to join the euro"
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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby gus-lopez » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:35 pm

[/quote]
[/color]

I would vote that they adopt the Euro if asked and insist that they stand alone in all respects right down to staffing their own embassies world wide, defence, national debt share and so on.[/quote]

Trouble is you won't be able to get out without all the aggro of the border controls. All road transport will be subject to searches . Same with current 'internal UK ' flights.

Cameron couldn't ever 'win'. By using the veto he's left the UK on the outside looking in & if they want to usurp financial business from the City of London , they will ; by using inducements & failing that the threat of restriction of trading in the EU euro zone as a big stick.
If he'd gone along he'd have been slaughtered at home.
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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby markwilding » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:59 pm

Hiker,
you aren't alone I think Cameron is pandering politically to the right of his party and has made a big mistake that will come back to haunt him in the future for the reasons already commented by Dave.

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby El Cid » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:19 pm

Politicians only worry about the short term.

Cameron made exactly the right decision from his own political point of view.

Whether it was the right decision for the country remains to be seen and it will be some time before that becomes apparent.

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby kelly » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:29 pm

Cameron and the UK have done the right thing, its not a right or left issue,the parliament in London is where all legislation should come from, if countries like Spain cant trust themselves due to historical baggage thats their problem,The Uk never needed nor will ever require the Euro or a fiscal union.
London will continue to thrive as a financial centre indeed I know of a bond firm in Frankfurt that is looking to relocate to London and employ London based staff. Look at Singapore as an example.
Nice picture in todays Guardian of Cameron and the Maltese premier alone on the table are they bothered of course not,,,,remember world war two when they both stood shoulder to shoulder..
where was Spain then...broken and about to embark on 40 years of Franco..Now its about to embark on another 40 years of austerity..
London is so busy with shoppers westfields etc resturants etc etc..
I was in Al Cala shopping centre last week I think there was 30 people in total

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby markwilding » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:13 am

You can't compare a provincial shopping centre to London. Madrid and Barcelona are always full of people.
I don't believe people are forgetting that most economies are having problems whether they are in the Euro, Pound or dollar.
Last edited by markwilding on Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby Julie » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:16 am

I read this link elsewere and found it interesting, maybe some of you would too :

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/ ... veto.thtml
No soporto ver la casa sucia, ahora mismo me levanto y apago la luz.


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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby Mowser » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:22 am

What a difference 24 hours makes ...
Nick Clegg and senior Liberal Democrats have turned dramatically on David Cameron over Europe, accusing the prime minister of endangering the interests of the British economy.
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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby Devils Advocate » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:33 am

What a surprise..........they'd have us wearing hooped jumpers with a string of onions around our necks, leaning on bikes if they had their way :mrgreen:

Now it will be interesting shortly to see if he opts out of the Human rights bill too, pundits reckon he'll veto that also..........if he does I think that is it as far as Europe and the UK goes and rightly so..........as he said during the week Britain has a better credit rating than Germany and France, can borrow money cheaper than Germany and spearheads the European wing of Nato..irrespective of the uneducated comments about borrowing French aircraft carriers. Why should Britain be ruled by these countries and the other 24...half of whom have not a pot to p1s5 in.

As Katy referenced earlier, the comment of the week was "Cameron waving the Titanic off"
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby kelly » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:19 am

The fact that the EU has a department funded by my tax to explain myths somes up what a waste the EU is for the UK..doesnt it? Look all the UK ever needs is a trading partner pure and simple. I dont mind having to wait longer to enter Spain whilst my dual nationality family sail on through.Look we are not liked and never have been in Spain its just pure jealousy see some on the comments on forums of the free Spanish papers 20 min..es for example. So why should I like them back? As for shopping differences most people in Madrid or Barcelona are just having a "paseo" not buying anything, as for Bilbao dont get me started on that nationalistic toilet..

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby rafiki » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:32 am

Mowser wrote:What a difference 24 hours makes ...
Nick Clegg and senior Liberal Democrats have turned dramatically on David Cameron over Europe, accusing the prime minister of endangering the interests of the British economy.


Whatever happened to collective Cabinet responsibility eh!? Accordingly both Clegg and Cable should be required to resign and if not then be sacked.
Brian

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby peteroldracer » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:32 pm

rafiki wrote: Nick Clegg and senior Liberal Democrats have turned dramatically on David Cameron .

Standard for naive politicians - say what you think, then when lots tell you they disagree.... :roll:
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby kelly » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:09 pm

Lord Oakshott who are you ??!! silly liberal idiot... referendum AND general election now then we can have a nice conservative majority by a landslide.

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby katy » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:52 pm

annfoto wrote:Before we go rushing off into wondering how this may affect Scotland's bid for independence we should perhaps pause and consider whether the Euro is saved or not.
All that was agreed was a theoretical way in how the Euro could work in the future if everyone agrees, and there is no guarantee that they will.
It doesn't solve the immediate problem of how Spain & Italy are going to repay their debt, all it does is promise 10 years of austerity and misery for most Eurozone countries which will reduce their GDP and increase their debt.They have kicked the can down the road again and bought some time probably hoping for a quiet festive season. It may last that long but will blow up by early January at the latest. The UK and David Cameron will get the blame for the implosion. Already the ill-mannered arrogance of some of Europe's most senior politicians is astounding when it is the Eurozone that has the begging bowl out not Britain.
If the Europoliticos are that clever why are their sovereigns borrowing at north of 6 per cent in some cases. Answers on a postcard please. :wink:


Some really good points here by Annfoto. Friday's summit was all about the future...there are more pressing matters to overcome.

The UK doesn't need Europe. I doubt if membership has been good for Spain either. OK. I know they have had loads of money but much of it has been sunk in useless projects. They would still have grown but more slowly and if they hadn't been in the euro they would not be in such a pickle now.

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby markwilding » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:03 pm

peteroldracer wrote:
rafiki wrote: Nick Clegg and senior Liberal Democrats have turned dramatically on David Cameron .

Standard for naive politicians - say what you think, then when lots tell you they disagree.... :roll:

Peter,
Couldn't it be that they disagree and believe that Cameron's motives are to try to claw back voters lost to UKIP ?

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby markwilding » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:26 pm

kelly wrote:The fact that the EU has a department funded by my tax to explain myths somes up what a waste the EU is for the UK..doesnt it? Look all the UK ever needs is a trading partner pure and simple. I dont mind having to wait longer to enter Spain whilst my dual nationality family sail on through.Look we are not liked and never have been in Spain its just pure jealousy see some on the comments on forums of the free Spanish papers 20 min..es for example. So why should I like them back? As for shopping differences most people in Madrid or Barcelona are just having a "paseo" not buying anything, as for Bilbao dont get me started on that nationalistic toilet..


I'm not surprised that you aren't well liked here in Spain.
To your first point, You must earn a lot of money if you fund a whole EU department.Maybe if papers such as the Daily Mail wrote some truths about the EU instead of scaremongering people, then a department, which has to inform people of the realities, wouldn't be needed.
To your second point,That's your opinion , not mine
To your third point, People have no problem with the British around here.
To your fourth point. If you want anybody to take you seriously, you shouldn't make sweeping statements like that Spanish people don't buy anything.I've never read anything more ridiculous.
To your last point, calling Bilbao nationalistic smacks of the pot calling the kettle black. Anyway I like living in this toilet and if you want to start on it, you can. However, you'd better know what you're talking about.(Not sure that Sid won't mind though)
Last edited by markwilding on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby Mowser » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:10 pm

kelly
What a childish ill-thought-out rant.
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Re: Britain referendum now

Postby Free at Last » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:18 pm

kelly wrote:Lord Oakshott who are you ??!! silly liberal idiot... referendum AND general election now then we can have a nice conservative majority by a landslide.


The fact that support for the Conservatives is currently standing at 38% in the opinion polls (with Labour at 39%) is hardly a portent of a potential landslide victory. Or perhaps in your parallel universe it is.


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