Should Britain pay other europeans ie: Spanish, the benefits

[knowal]

Where have you been? Britain is bankrupt. Like other European countries it cannot pay off its massive debts. Even under Osbornes austerity the debt has increased hugely since the Condems took office, a fact not appreciated by many folk.

At least IDS is doing a reasonable job of trying to reduce the amount of benefits paid out.

Yes, which means the only option to reduce the debt is my system. As from next monday all benefits cease;except pensions which will be doubled.( except for people who never worked in their lives )
All shares & divis taken are taxed at source . No money can be taken without a flat rate tax . all non-doms pay tax. anyone who doesn't like it leaves ......with only the clothes they stand up in , along with family ;all assets revert to state for sale to highest bidder. All illegals deported .
" If in doubt , aim 'em out !"
There, that should reduce the burden a bit.
"Communism is the equal division of poverty. Capitalism is the unequal division of money"[/quote]

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Could get a lot harder out there!

[TerryC]

This reply is directed to Mark Wilding specifically but I´m sure some others may be interested. Hello Mark it is a while since we sparred. I agree that the Euro did not cause the present financial problems, it was started by banks being "reponsible lenders" NOT. From that the seeds were sown for our present crisis. However the Euro a politically motivated currency was doomed from the outset. You cannot have one fits all currency without everything else being equal, taxes, social security etc, etc, etc. You also need countries with fairly similar fiscal abilities, clearly not possible between the richer nations of Northern Europe and the poorer nations in the south. You also need people in government that actually have a clue and very clearly indeed all the spendthrift governments throughout Europe in the last ten to fifteen years or so did not have a clue. No more boom and bust was famously stated by Gordon Brown, what an idiot to think that the UK could be insulated from the outside world. Because the world is ruled by the inept, everybody, apart from the 1% rich, will suffer for the next ten years or so in the biggest recession the world has ever known. Also Mark it is a fact that if the rich were to spread their wealth evenly it would make very little difference to anybody. The common market, the EEC and now the EU is all about European domination, what couldn´t be achieved by the gun is now achieved politically, and not democratic politics but dictatorship. All the people of Europe have been lied to from the outset and there seems to be total apathy amongst voters to actually do something about it all, very sad. I wonder what our world will be like in 5 years time?
On the subject of benefits, the fact that so many Europeans have flocked to the UK says a lot about the UKs benefit system and successive British governments are totally inept in dealing with the problem. UK taxpayers are the ones who should benefit from the welfare system. No other country in Europe gives their money away to foreigners be they European or otherwise. My biggest concern is for the British pensioner, they have lived and worked most of their lives in very difficult times and now have to live on a pittance and see immigrants with housing benefits etc that a pensioner could only dream of. Is that fair and right, of course not?

[Martin Page]

Too right - Terry

[Julie]

Terry I agree with you 100 %

[peteroldracer]

My biggest concern is for the British pensioner, they have lived and worked most of their lives in very difficult times ?

If pensioners cannot live reasonably well on a standard pension, they must have expectations of lifestyle that are unrealistic, or have not planned how they will live on an income known to them many years in advance of them getting it.
I do, of course, refer only to pensioners resident here in Andalucia, anything or anywhere else being irrelevant on this forum.

[katy]

For many years the FCO have been informing on their website that a standard basic pension is not enough to live on in Spain...what do they know though

[markwilding]

Terry, I'm not going to respond to your piece because you know where I stand.
However, what Peter said is interesting because for some reason there is this rose tinted glasses memory of the Peseta being a weak currency in the years it joined the Euro,when in fact it was very strong against the pound.
For many British pensioners it was a weak Euro that enticed lots of them to come to Spain not a weak peseta. Many didn't take into account the cycle of fluctuating exchange rates.
Peter's correct when he says people need to prepare themselves for a very comfortable retirement, if not they will not be able to live the high life.That isn't to say they should live in poverty, of course they shouldn't.
Those who spent their earnings and didn't save can't blame immigration into their country for their situation and in fact my generation, who have more than 10 -15 year before we retire, will rely on these immigrants to help pay for our pensions.
Katy,
I agree that in general, the basic pension is in general isn't enough to live on in Spain. Of course, there will always be exceptions where people can manage on a shoestring.

[katy]

I think the peseta was weak before joining the euro. We bought a few properties between 1997/9 and was getting around 240 to 250 to the Pound.

[peteroldracer]

the basic pension is in general isn't enough to live on in Spain. Of course, there will always be exceptions where people can manage on a shoestring.

With respect mark (which usually is followed by the opposite!) I disagree - If pensioners have bought their property (and not gone for a condo on a golf course with all the surcharges that brings!) or rented at a reasonable rate, retaining their capital from house sale in the UK to top-up living expenses, a couple would have a minimum of around 1200€ coming in per month, which is a hell of a lot of food (bought wisely), power (used reasonably carefully) and even 500€ per year for car insurance should not hurt.
To me, that is not living in poverty, anything but. The vast majority of people in the UK do not have villas with pools and air-conditioning, yet with care that level of home is easily affordable here.
If, however, they had no property to sell in the UK and little or no capital, any decision to come and live away from the benefit system and council housing in the UK could be very unwise.
One man's shoestring is another's rope of gold.

[Spud]

If we were not in the EU the UK could say no to handing out benefits to immigrants unless they have worked for a set number of years before they can claim. But the EU has said that all immigrants must be treated the same as British citizens, or have I got that wrong. That is why every man and his dog moves to Britain. If there was no benefits for immigrants I am sure most of them would return to their native home and the welfare bill would go down. I came to live in Spain because the area I lived in was overrun with Asians who made it quite clear that I was not wanted in their community. I sold my house for far less than it was worth and could not afford to buy in the UK but I could afford a little house here. While in the UK my husband left me with two children to take care of and after paying the mortgage, feeding and clothing my children I did not have money to spare to put into a private pension and I am sure that there are many still living in the UK who are in a similar position, so peteroldracer not everyone is lucky enough to save for their retirement, not everyone has a well paid job or even a job. I am here living on the UK state pension only, struggling daily but getting by, just. I paid N:I: for forty years to get my state pension so yes I am angry when someone from Romania reaches Britain and gets housing benefit of more than 1,000 pounds a week while I struggle on 420 a month.

[gus-lopez]

I think the peseta was weak before joining the euro. We bought a few properties between 1997/9 and was getting around 240 to 250 to the Pound.

No they came in at 166.386 pesetas =£1. Probably the strongest it had been in 20+ years
£6 = 1000 pesetas . £4 = 1000 would have been more sense.

[katy]

I have paperwork showing 249 pesetas to the pound in the late 90's. I wasn't on about what it went into the euro at

[Mowser]

Agree with Katy. I was getting around 250 pesetas to the pound in the late 90s.

[knowal]

No they came in at 166.386 pesetas =£1. Probably the strongest it had been in 20+ years
£6 = 1000 pesetas . £4 = 1000 would have been more sense.

gus, sorry mate you are getting your currencies mixed up.
166.386 Pesetas was the rate fixed to the Euro upon its inception.

At one point I remember the rate being at almost 300 Pesetas to the pound. I think that this was around 1996 but I can't find any figures at the moment

[katy]

Here is a site for it, just pop in the year required, although it only shows the monthly average.

http://www.gocurrency.com/v2/historic-e ... rYear=1999

[markwilding]

Katy and Moswer,
You are right, time sometimes plays tricks on you. The very strong peseta was 3 years earlier and White horse is also correct the 166 figure was against euro.

[peteroldracer]

I first visited in 1969, and I see the rate was only 164 ptas/GBP - boy oh boy though, you sure got a lot for that 164 - it would easily buy a good meal with wine, I just cannot recall for how many people!

[katy]

The first beer I bought in Spain cost me 5 pesetas

[Mowser]

I bought a packet of Celtas in 1966. They cost 5 pesetas. Dreadful cigarette. I gave the packet away to a road sweeper.

[peteroldracer]

I am here living on the UK state pension only, struggling daily but getting by, just.

It is always a bit sad to hear of someone struggling, but at the end of the day you have made the choice to come and live in Spain, when it sounds like you may have been more comfortable doing what the people you are jealous of have done - live within the benefit envelope that the UK provides for those in the UK.
It is for you to decide if your choice was the wise one, given what life seems to have thrown at you, but I still maintain that the majority of people retiring here on a state pension are not living in poverty.