ukip policies on what to do with expats

Other topics that are not covered in the sections above.
markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby markwilding » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:38 am

Lavanda wrote:"... many of our members are married to or have family and friends living in other EU countries..."

For example, Nigel Farage

olive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4500
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:13 pm
Location: Poniente, Granada

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby olive » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:15 pm

markwilding wrote:
olive wrote:

If Britain does run out of money i.e. its debt is too much (it is already way over the critical 90%) then parity would be the least of Britains problems as would struggling expats. .
The fact that the UK has just got back its triple AAA credit rating from ratings agency Standard & Poor's doesn't seem to back up your expectation that Britain is about to go bust.The high rating tends to mean that the most in the financial market are confident that the UK can make its repayments.
Times are hard but......
The economy is stagnant, It isn't disappearing.
Like the deficit. Britain owes a vast amount of money that is increasing each year despite the Coalition saying it would decrease. It is like a Ponzi scheme or the King has got no clothes on scenario. It continually amazes me that sheeple think every thing is fine just because the government tell them everything is fine. I wonder how many Greeks or Portuguese or Irish for example believed everything was fine before they had to accept bailouts and the subsequent draconian austerity measures. Labour will form the next UK government , without needing to form a coalition. They will preside over the running out of money. The only salvation could be another war.

Ratings agencies? Weren't they the ones that pronounced the USA in good health just before their banking crash...... Thought so.

pete_l
Resident
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:59 pm
Location: Benamaurel, Granada

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby pete_l » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:57 pm

olive wrote:Ratings agencies? Weren't they the ones that pronounced the USA in good health just before their banking crash...... Thought so.
The attributes that makes the UK credit rating one of the best in the world, let's repeat that to make sure everyone got it: ONE OF THE BEST IN THE WORLD, is that the UK has stable government, a well regulated finance sector, manageable debt and a history of never, ever defaulting on a government loan (let's ignore the war-loans fron the USA made during WW1 that will never be repaid).

So far as the U.S. credit rating goes: Moody's Investors Service currently rates the United States Aaa, Fitch rates the country AAA, and Standard & Poor's rates the country AA-plus. All three of those ratings have a negative outlook.

So, no: the rating agencies are not blind to the americans' failure to control their budget and debts. The fact that they dealt with the huge problems without needing a bail-out and that their currency didn't go into free-fall demonstrates that their credit rating is probably about right. And while ratings are merely opinions based on openly available information, they do mean the the UK can borrow money far cheaper than almost any other country. That in itself is a sign of the confidence that every lender has in the UK's ability to pay its way. If they didn't have that confidence, they wouldn't buy british debt at such low rates.

markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby markwilding » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:10 pm

Correct and it's the ability to repay the loans, In Britain's case roughly 3% of GDP, that matters not the overall debt.

User avatar
janda_grant2
Resident
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:21 pm
Location: Kirton, Lincs

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby janda_grant2 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:02 pm

Farange was in town last night - he's doing a common sense tour of the UK. Make of that what you will.
I can spell but I can't type

gus-lopez
Resident
Posts: 1572
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:55 am
Location: Lorca, Murcia ,Spain

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby gus-lopez » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:04 pm

Lavanda wrote:"... many of our members are married to or have family and friends living in other EU countries..."
Farage's wife is German.
Todos somos Lorca.

gus-lopez
Resident
Posts: 1572
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:55 am
Location: Lorca, Murcia ,Spain

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby gus-lopez » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:42 pm

pete_l wrote:
olive wrote:Ratings agencies? Weren't they the ones that pronounced the USA in good health just before their banking crash...... Thought so.
The attributes that makes the UK credit rating one of the best in the world, let's repeat that to make sure everyone got it: ONE OF THE BEST IN THE WORLD, is that the UK has stable government, a well regulated finance sector, manageable debt and a history of never, ever defaulting on a government loan (let's ignore the war-loans fron the USA made during WW1 that will never be repaid).

So far as the U.S. credit rating goes: Moody's Investors Service currently rates the United States Aaa, Fitch rates the country AAA, and Standard & Poor's rates the country AA-plus. All three of those ratings have a negative outlook.

So, no: the rating agencies are not blind to the americans' failure to control their budget and debts. The fact that they dealt with the huge problems without needing a bail-out and that their currency didn't go into free-fall demonstrates that their credit rating is probably about right. And while ratings are merely opinions based on openly available information, they do mean the the UK can borrow money far cheaper than almost any other country. That in itself is a sign of the confidence that every lender has in the UK's ability to pay its way. If they didn't have that confidence, they wouldn't buy british debt at such low rates.
All very true but when you take a closer look you find that the UK's overall debt, both public& private is 8,900,000,000. That's tad short of 9 trillion. :crazy: Near enough past the point of no return!

The ratings agencies. " Would you buy a used car off of these people " comes to mind. The ones who rated AAA, the bonds rolled up & sold around the world as guaranteed investments when the only research done was on the initial small schemes where the failure figure was around 4%. These though had been taken out by people who had basically been vetted. They then just assumed that the failure % would be the same & started selling them like smarties, no checks, nothing. People who'd never worked , some who'd been in prison all their lives. It defies belief. So does the fact that 'non.recourse' mortgages are even available. If they offered them in the UK people would have been buying all & everything & just throwing the keys in on the ones that didn't work.This is basically what started the whole world-wide crisis !

Why is the U.S. economy in such apparent good shape ? Well the main reason is that the oil barrel price is linked to the U.S. dollar, something that Nixon managed to shaft the rest of the world by instigating , as an American friend of mine recently said. Followed by his next words " We're ****ed, it is all smoke & mirrors".

Which brings us on to what was actually being seriously considered by the Chinese, Russians, OPEC, etc; immediately prior to the world-wide crisis ? Aah yes, Removing the U.S. dollar as the oil barrel currency & A -letting it be traded in all currencies or B-, the favourite, linking it to the Euro. You can see where the conspiracy theories come from. :shifty:
Why were they even talking about it ? Because it was stagnating, the economy was bad , the sheer scale of the debt, etc. It hasn't suddenly got better ,has it ?

If the U.S. dollar wasn't linked to the oil price the roof would have fallen in long ago. Why do you think that the ratings agencies, all American, keep the pressure on Europe with only an occasional kicking for the Americans ? Even Merkel , who said we need a European agency, can see the problem when you have people with a vested interest in one country over & above all others.

It is far worse over there than people realise & all being cunningly hidden. & the UK , unfortunately, isn't far behind.
Todos somos Lorca.

olive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4500
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:13 pm
Location: Poniente, Granada

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby olive » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:55 pm

And, what will save the Americans is their clever historical use of other peoples oil.

Now the chips are down they will extract their vast shale reserves using Fracking. Very clever. Without that they too would hit the buffers before 2020.

Sheeple. I rest my case. Sleep well.

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby katy » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:33 pm

There doesn't seem to be much concern over the USA or UK debt. Meanwhile at the train crash site, the European Commission has warned Spain that if it does not tackle the imbalances in it's economy they could be fined millions of euros!


The European Commission has warned that Spain and Slovenia must quickly tackle the imbalances in their economies.

Spain has already had its banking system bailed out and Slovenia is widely expected to become the next to ask for for a debt rescue.

The Commission said the pair are the worst of the 13 European Union countries currently under review.

It called on Spain to deliver a "decisive" reform programme by the end of the month.


There are a lot of factors to consider, not just black and white.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22089641

User avatar
SponPlague
Tourist
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:30 pm

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby SponPlague » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:37 pm

Two thoughts:

1. EUROPE is NOT the same as the EU, or Russia would be sending MEPs to Brussels!

2. Those who think Nigel Farage hates foreigners should remember that he has a German wife.

I will not be spending much time here, as my job as a moderator on the members' forum keeps me busy, amongst otherbthings, but I have enjoyed great holidays in Alcanar, Catalonia recently...
"Contrariwise", said Tweedledee, "If it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be, but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!"

Lavanda
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 6191
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Cáceres Province, Extremadura

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby Lavanda » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:34 am

Thanks for your input here ... :D

markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby markwilding » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:07 am

SponPlague wrote:Two thoughts:

1. EUROPE is NOT the same as the EU, or Russia would be sending MEPs to Brussels!

2. Those who think Nigel Farage hates foreigners should remember that he has a German wife.

I will not be spending much time here, as my job as a moderator on the members' forum keeps me busy, amongst otherbthings, but I have enjoyed great holidays in Alcanar, Catalonia recently...
Response,
1, I suppose that most already know that, However, who can say that Russia won't join some time in the future, Unlikely but possible.
2, I'm sure he doesn't hate all foreigners, although there might be sometimes when he hates his wife. Although that will be more to do with being his OH, and less because she's German.

I too would like to thank you, your posts have been answered in a calm and pleasant way unlike mine and some other posters.

User avatar
Mowser
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 6388
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:42 am
Location: Torre del Mar

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby Mowser » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:03 am

Thanks for your thoughts Spon.
Dave

pete_l
Resident
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:59 pm
Location: Benamaurel, Granada

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby pete_l » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:22 am

gus-lopez wrote: ...
All very true but when you take a closer look you find that the UK's overall debt, both public& private is 8,900,000,000. That's tad short of 9 trillion. :crazy: Near enough past the point of no return!

The ratings agencies. ... .
Gus, Gus, Gus. What can I say? except to quote you a piece written by the BBC's top economist.

It's an excellent morality tale, which chimes well with the British tendency towards self-flagellation.
There's just one problem. It's not really true.

Apart from the small point of the quoted figure being way off the mark (UK government debt is about £1Tn, citizens private debt is about twice that - but denominated in UKP) and the non-sequiturs, I can't really fathom who you're angry at.
The ratings agencies base their opinions on freely available, public information that all countries publish about themselves. Those FACTS (not the number of "A"s in a rating - which is mainly for the media's consumption) are used by everyone who buys government bonds at the various countries' auctions and they use that information to determine the price they are willing to pay. So it's not the ratings agencies that determine the government interest rates, but the buyers at the GILTs auctions. That's lots of separate buyers, who do this professionally using world-class analytics, all acting independently.

Can I make a friendly suggestion that you read Stephanie Flanders' article about debt. It sets a few things straight.

Apropos Nigel Farage. I read the profile on him in the FT Weekend magazine a few weeks ago (now available here). He is obviously a very intelligent individual and I have enormous respect for him as a person. However, his views on europe are simply not that important to the average british voter (nor to me). I'd only support a politician who was willing to address the issues that I care about, viz. employment, health, taxation, transport, care of the elderly, personal liberties, crime and the cost of living. Whether the UK is in or out of the Eu is an abstraction that simply doesn't register with me. I'm more concerned about the country's nuclear arms strategy than about membership of the EU. So no, I won't vote for UKIP or it's policies on europe or immigration. I want my hot topics addressed first.

markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby markwilding » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:44 am

I agree,
Although the EU is a real concern to some people, The demographics of UK society has and is changing and less and less people remember England in the old traditional sense of this green and pleasant land, which for any person from a city under the age of 45 wouldn't recognise as British culture anyway

The reasons outlined by pete_l are the real concern for the largest proportion of British society.

As far as the debt issue is concerned, and Britain going bust is Olive's concern, I also agree with the article posted by pete_l because only looking from the point of view that Britain debt accounts for 87% of GDP and is rising doesn't take into account other extremely important factors.

User avatar
SponPlague
Tourist
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:30 pm

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby SponPlague » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:59 am

Ah, but the EU does impact on hese issues - it's just that the Westminster abd Brussels lot are good at pretending it doesn't!

Take health, for example: The EU working time directive ensures that junior doctors can no longer get the training they need, which means that, in the near future, there will be a lack of exereienced senior professionals...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/tele ... ching.html
A directive introduced to ensure that lorry drivers and machine operators took a rest period on safety grounds has – like many other EU rules – morphed into something that was never intended.
"Contrariwise", said Tweedledee, "If it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be, but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!"

olive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4500
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:13 pm
Location: Poniente, Granada

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby olive » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:03 am

It is a bit off topic but some figures will illustrate why Britain is heading for inevitable financial disaster.

It was oft trumpeted that Gordon Brown left the country in a dire position with a debt of £800 billion. The Condems could and should have done something drastic about the situation in their first half term of office. Instead they chose not to. Last year and this year Britains debt will increase or did increase by £120billion each year. The forecast is by the year 2015 it will be £1,400 billion.

Neither leading party will commit to years of proper austerity in their election campaign as it would be political suicide.

By 2015 the debt to economic output will be way over the 100% mark. There simply will not be any way of paying it off with the exception of war or massive inflation or a raid on bank deposits.....

Quote Whether the UK is in or out of the Eu is an abstraction that simply doesn't register with me. I'm more concerned about the country's nuclear arms strategy than about membership of the EU.

Technically there would be more money available if Britain wasn't frittering it away as a net contributor to the EU. That could be spent on issues like employment, health, taxation, transport, care of the elderly, personal liberties, crime and the cost of living. I do not subscribe to the notion that Britains trade would suffer from distancing itself from a federal Europe. Europe is a stagnant market and will be worse as more countries implement more austerity/bank deposit grabs. The real markets are the BRICS. Cameron is to be applauded for drumming up business there. Better late than never.

Quote It called on Spain to deliver a "decisive" reform programme by the end of the month.
For reforms we can read swinging austerity like the Irish and the Portuguese have been made to implement as conditions of their bailouts. Oh dear.

pete_l
Resident
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:59 pm
Location: Benamaurel, Granada

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby pete_l » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:28 am

olive wrote:I do not subscribe to the notion that Britains trade would suffer from distancing itself from a federal Europe. Europe is a stagnant market and will be worse as more countries implement more austerity/bank deposit grabs. The real markets are the BRICS. Cameron is to be applauded for drumming up business there. Better late than never.
Who the UK trades with is not an either/or question (either they sell to the eurozone OR to the BRICs). No, the country, like anyone in the eurozone is free to trade with whomsoever they choose.
Selling to the EU does have a lot of advantages: physical proximity, good transport connections, common standards and practices and a demand for the sophisticated services that the UK is good at providing.

The basic problem there is that the UK has a shrivelled and decayed manufacturing base, so there are not many trade goods that they can offer the BRICs in return for all the consumer goods that the UK can't / won't make for themselves.

TerryC
Resident
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:18 am
Location: Antequera

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby TerryC » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:09 pm

Is Mark Wilding an MEP or EU Commissioner or work in some way for the EU by any chance?

They must be the only people who can possibly support the EU dictatorship which is taking over sovereign nations one by one.

I fail to understand how political leaders of a sovereign nation can support the EU other than they have a vested interest in it for THEIR future and b***** the people they are supposed to represent.

Back on the topic, UKIP do not really need any policies on Expats, unforunately they won´t form any part of any government, more´s the pity and even if there is the promised referendum in 2017 it will not be in/out it will be something like do you support the changes we are demanding from the EU, even though the EU has said it will NOT ALLOW any changes. True democracy in action folks.

User avatar
Julie
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3534
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:47 pm
Location: Andalucia & Greater Manchester

Re: ukip policies on what to do with expats

Postby Julie » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:02 pm

If other people behaved in business as those in Brussels they would be locked up :crazy: They are a law unto themselves :thumbdown:
No soporto ver la casa sucia, ahora mismo me levanto y apago la luz.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests