Amazon, damn cheek

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casita-bonita
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Amazon, damn cheek

Postby casita-bonita » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:04 pm

Seems that Amazon UK has a new scam to get more money out of us Spanish residents...

I add a product to my basket, in this case Nicorette 2mg gum 210 pieces, which BTW isn't available on their Spanish site and it costs £17.99. Proceed with the checkout process and when I specify delivery to my Spanish address not only does it add delivery (as expected) but the price increases to £20.73.

If I change the delivery address to a UK one the postage dissappears since it's free Supersaver delivery and the price drops back to £17.99 for the item...

And before anyone suggests buying this in a local Farmacia we have on one occasion and had to pay 59 euros for it. Rip off or what?.....
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Bob

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby El Cid » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:05 pm

casita-bonita wrote:S

And before anyone suggests buying this in a local Farmacia we have on one occasion and had to pay 59 euros for it. Rip off or what?.....
If you can get it from the UK for less than half the price in Spain it seems like a good deal.

As for it being a rip-off, how do you know there is not a simple reason, such as the highly varied VAT rules on this sort of product? Books are at different prices for just that reason.

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby Nimrod » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:08 pm

Maybe I'm not seeing the point here but doesn't the parcel have to go overseas and therefore cost more to transport?

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby El Cid » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:16 pm

The delivery price does vary, but the point is that the actual base price also varies.

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby Enrique » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:30 pm

Is there a different VAT rate when shipped to Spain............. :?:
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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby casita-bonita » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:19 pm

Surely the item is still being purchased in the UK and simply shipped to Spain, which if memory serves is in the EU.
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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby El Cid » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:29 pm

The vat rate charged is based on the country it is shipped to, not the country of origin.

If you think that the VAT rates in the EU are all the same, think again! There are huge differences.

Anti smoking gum is rated at only 5% in the UK. In Spain I am pretty sure it is the full 21%

If you do the maths you will find that that exactly makes the difference in price.

So apologies to Amazon seem to be in order.

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby eazbak » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:34 pm

Maybe the 20.73 was € and not £ ?

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby peteroldracer » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:53 pm

As one who went from 60 a day, to nothing (for more than ten years) I would advise you to just stop thinking about anything to do with nicotine or smoking. It simply requires will power.
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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby casita-bonita » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:24 pm

El Cid wrote:
Anti smoking gum is rated at only 5% in the UK. In Spain I am pretty sure it is the full 21%

If you do the maths you will find that that exactly makes the difference in price.

So apologies to Amazon seem to be in order.

Sid
You may well be right here. Previous Nicorette orders

Delivered to Spain

Item(s) Subtotal: £26.42
Postage & Packing: £4.75
-----
Total before VAT: £31.17
VAT: £6.55
-----
Total: £37.72

Same thing delivered to UK

Item(s) Subtotal: £31.89
Postage & Packing: £0.00
-----
Total before VAT: £31.89
VAT: £1.60
-----
Total: £33.49


Surely VAT should be charged at the rate of the country the product is sold in? UK website, UK IP address....

Tried it the other way round and put an item in my basket on Amazon.es. Funny the price didn't decrease when I changed shipping to UK instead of Spain. But then maybe this item is the same VAT rate in both counntries.
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Bob

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby El Cid » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:41 pm

casita-bonita wrote:
Surely VAT should be charged at the rate of the country the product is sold in? UK website, UK IP address....

.
No, that's not how it works. As I previously said, it is the country of delivery that decides the rate of VAT applicable.

It has always been that way.

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby casita-bonita » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:18 pm

El Cid wrote:
casita-bonita wrote:
Surely VAT should be charged at the rate of the country the product is sold in? UK website, UK IP address....

.
No, that's not how it works. As I previously said, it is the country of delivery that decides the rate of VAT applicable.

It has always been that way.

Sid
Not according to HMRC

What counts as a sale to another EU country?

If you supply goods to a customer in another EU country who isn't registered for VAT in that country, and you are responsible for delivery - that is, they don't collect them - then this is called a 'distance sale'. The most common examples are mail order or internet sales to private individuals in another EU country.

However, if you transfer your own goods to another EU country - whether to another part of your organisation, or simply to put in storage - this is treated as if you had made a supply in this country and an acquisition in the destination country. You may therefore have to account for UK VAT unless you are also registered for VAT in the EU country to which they are sent - in which case they can be zero-rated assuming all the usual conditions are met. You may also have to account for acquisition VAT in that country, and so have to be registered there.
Do you need to register for VAT in other EU countries?

For distance sales, you must charge VAT at UK rates in the normal way. However, each country has a 'distance selling threshold'. If the value of your sales to that country exceeds this threshold, you must register for VAT in that country, and charge their rate of VAT on sales to that country.
Regards

Bob

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby rafiki » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:27 pm

casita-bonita wrote: For distance sales, you must charge VAT at UK rates in the normal way. However, each country has a 'distance selling threshold'. If the value of your sales to that country exceeds this threshold, you must register for VAT in that country, and charge their rate of VAT on sales to that country.
And it's that 'however' that counts I suspect.
Brian.

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby gina59 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:13 am

Maybe we should check invoices more carefully, I just had a email comfirming a order I made with argos spain online, I looked at the total amount of 37. 50 plus 8.22 postage which they said came to 47.50 not a great difference, less then 2euros overcharge, and something I normally would not have noticed, I cant see how a computer would make that error, and have sent them a email asking for a explanation. Still waiting for a reply.
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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby El Cid » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:27 am

rafiki wrote:
casita-bonita wrote: For distance sales, you must charge VAT at UK rates in the normal way. However, each country has a 'distance selling threshold'. If the value of your sales to that country exceeds this threshold, you must register for VAT in that country, and charge their rate of VAT on sales to that country.
And it's that 'however' that counts I suspect.

Correct.

Amazon UK has a Spanish IVA number - it's ESN10811521 - it's on the bottom of the UK invoice they send you. The same number is shown on invoices from Amazon Spain.

The threshold is €35000.

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby casita-bonita » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:54 am

El Cid wrote:
rafiki wrote:
And it's that 'however' that counts I suspect.

Correct.

Amazon UK has a Spanish IVA number - it's ESN10811521 - it's on the bottom of the UK invoice they send you. The same number is shown on invoices from Amazon Spain.

The threshold is €35000.

Sid
A UK registered company cannot charge VAT at the prevailing rate of of another country simply because it's sending goods there.

I suspect that Amazon considers the country of shipping to be the the country in which the order is placed. Hence the ES VAT number and VAT an the Spanish rate.

I also suspect that it's to do with orders being fulfilled by Amazon s.a.r.l ( limited company in Luxumbourg and other countries) rather than Amazon Ltd, a UK company if there is such a thing, that allows them to do this.

There are these registered in the UK:-

Name & Registered Office:
AMAZON.CO.UK LTD.
PATRIOT COURT
1-9 THE GROVE
SLOUGH
BERKSHIRE
SL1 1QP
Company No. 03223028

Name & Registered Office:
AMAZON. COM U.K., LTD.
PATRIOT COURT
1-9 THE GROVE
SLOUGH
BERKSHIRE
SL1 1QP
Company No. 03499011


But I can't say that I have ever seen my orders marked as fulfilled by wither of them. It's always Amazon s.a.r.l whether I ship to UK or Spain.
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Bob

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby El Cid » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:59 am

This is what you quoted and it clearly states that the VAT rate applied will be that of the destination country.

For distance sales, you must charge VAT at UK rates in the normal way. However, each country has a 'distance selling threshold'. If the value of your sales to that country exceeds this threshold, you must register for VAT in that country, and charge their rate of VAT on sales to that country.


Amazon obviously exceeds the €35k threshold so they have registered for VAT in Spain and charge Spanish IVA.

If you still think otherwise I suggest you contact Amazon and ask for the extra VAT to be credited.

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby casita-bonita » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:05 am

Seems to me that you are missing the point here.......................

BTW a company doesn't have to exceed the threshold to have a VAT number. When we started our company many years back initially we didn't exceed the UK VAT threshold BUT we resistered for VAT as part of the 'smoke and mirrors' to make it appear big enough that large corporates would order from us.
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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby El Cid » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:18 am

casita-bonita wrote:

Seems to me that you are missing the point here.......................

BTW a company doesn't have to exceed the threshold to have a VAT number. When we started our company many years back initially we didn't exceed the UK VAT threshold BUT we resistered for VAT as part of the 'smoke and mirrors' to make it appear big enough that large corporates would order from us.
I fear it is you who are missing the point.

It has nothing to do with UK VAT thresholds. The threshold referred to is set by Spain not the UK.

From KPMG:-

If it supplies goods to a customer who is not registered for VAT in another EU Member State, it will have to charge Spanish VAT. However, if the sales exceed a certain threshold for that Member State it may have to register in the Member State under what is known as the Distance Selling Scheme.

As I said, take it up with Amazon if you don't agree.

Sid

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Re: Amazon, damn cheek

Postby peteroldracer » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:52 am

Or stop getting stressed out over a few Euro (which may tempt you back to nicotine) and convince yourself you are no longer a drug addict?
Going for a run, chewing on a carrot, yoga and so on have helped strugglers - the effort is worth it!
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