after the Greeks ...

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Lavanda
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Lavanda » Sat May 07, 2016 6:08 pm

Tucked away in the news is the unsurprising announcement that the Greeks will default on their next payments unless someone bails them out. The IMF have said it's not their problem and they are not interested in 'helping' unless there is some structured debt relief on the table. Who, on earth, is amazed by this 'new' turn of events? Couple this with the referendum in the UK and the Turks about to get free six week visas (or whatever) I'm going to mix my threads (with Sid's indulgence) and just ask, "Is this the beginning of the end or just 21st century politics?"

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby detourer » Sat May 07, 2016 6:29 pm

Yes Lavanda, its not the just 21st century politics.............its just the beginning of the end as we know it :wave: ....
Go to the grave in an attractive and well preserved body? Rather skid in sideways, women on each arm, champagne and credit card in each hand, body thoroughly used, abused, totally worn out and screaming …."WOO HOO, WHAT A RIDE"

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby katy » Sat May 07, 2016 7:40 pm

There is a 3 day strike in Greece right now, even Doctors, Civil Servants etc. France is technically bankrupt, Spain threatened with a 200,000 million fine if it doesn't get control of it's overspend, rioting on the Austrian/Italian border, left wing too, change from right wing :) .....why are we having a referendum, it's all falling to bits :wink:

Visas for Turkey seems to be dead in the water, they have had a fall out :mrgreen:

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Lavanda » Sat May 07, 2016 9:38 pm

Agree that it's coming unraveled but I think the EU death throes may last a long time. I saw the Greek demonstrations on the Spanish news. The people didn't vote for austerity but they got it anyway. It's totally, totally crazy that the EU wants to keep Greece in the EuroZone when every half wit in the world knows it's just not viable.

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby anyroads » Tue May 10, 2016 11:17 am

With Greece,

Its almost like death with a thousand cuts...

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby fincalospinos » Tue May 10, 2016 12:27 pm

At least their parliament agreed to pension reforms yesterday, which will free up the next 5 billion euro tranche of loans.
Hardworking resident !!

anyroads
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby anyroads » Tue May 10, 2016 1:04 pm

The country is dead in the water.

Some of the latest stats bandied about.

The economy has shrunk by 27% ( 32% drop in the US in the Great Depression )
Unemployment now stands at more than 25%.
Economy shrank by another 0.6% in the latest quarter.
The debt-to-GDP ratio has climbed to above 180%, at which point there is no hope of it ever being repaid.
Personal allowances are being reduced to eur 8,800.
Upper tax rate of 45% will now be levied on incomes of just eur 40,000
Dividend taxes are going from 10% to 15%.
A "solidarity levy" is being imposed on net income, ranging from 2.2% on incomes up to eur 20,000 to 6.5% up to eur 40,000
Social security contributions are now 20% of salaries, including a 13% charge on employers ( why bother starting a new company ! ).

Oh, and they have more than fair share of migrants.

Doomed, I tell you DOOMED !

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby anyroads » Thu May 12, 2016 9:51 am

After the Greeks of course it is the Italians.

They are far too large to be bullied, but in every bit as much trouble.

Germany is really going to have to work overtime to keep everything together.

Surely the end game can't be too far away ?

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby katy » Thu May 12, 2016 10:49 am

We have been here before but the gravy train rolls on :) Noticed This week one day Italian stocks fell over 2% whilst the rest fell only around 0.7%. Poor Greece has to struggle into 2035 before it is out of the wood. Claimed France is technically bankrupt. The ECB is buying up all the Eurozone countries bonds. Before the Euro Spain's debt to GDP was app. 40% now it is 100%.

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby anyroads » Thu May 12, 2016 11:20 am

On holiday in April,

It was sad to see the number of working age men hanging around ( or wandering around selling lottery tickets ) in Andalucia, doing nothing.


anyroads

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby JuliaStein » Thu May 12, 2016 11:25 am

The problem is..When you have a bunch of clowns in charge, you have a circus !

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby anyroads » Thu May 12, 2016 11:53 am

Or lions, led by donkeys !

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby ChrisM » Fri May 13, 2016 1:55 pm

The really sad thing about all this is the human toll, all because of a dogma pursued by the 'elite'. Back in the day, a country would devalue and align their economy with reality. That's not possible now.

This absurd model will collapse; it's a question of when. In the meantime, the people continue to pay the price while the 'elite' lifestyle continues untouched by their own dogma.
Mañana

Lavanda
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Lavanda » Sat May 14, 2016 6:47 am

Agreed Chris. However I think the reorganisations/collapse/whatever of the EU needs a catalyst to start it going. Maybe, just maybe, the referendum in the UK may result in something other countries could take heart from. Maybe, just maybe, the U.K. might lead the way to a more ordered and Democratic future in Europe. I would like to think so. The Euro Experiment has made a few people rich, given power to bankers and not elected governments, and made most people's lives very difficult. We'll see.

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby markwilding » Sat May 14, 2016 12:00 pm

Your living in dream world if you really believe the collapse of the EU will solve Greece's problems. It's very easy to forget how far countries like Greece
have come in the last 40 years.
I'm not saying that they are in a perfect situation now, which I firmly believe would have happened anyway even if there hadn't been an EU. The Corruption and misappropriation of investment would have still been there.

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Lavanda » Sat May 14, 2016 12:21 pm

What are you saying Mark? The collapse of the EuroZone WILL help poorer countries claw back some sort of viability but that's a different matter to the collapse of the EU but, agreed, corruption and misuse of public money is endemic and happens everywhere given opportunity.

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby markwilding » Sat May 14, 2016 1:22 pm

What I'm saying is there are huge risks to the break up of unions. Greece could leave the Euro zone and default but would that be the best option? It wouldn't just be a case of the debt disappearing because there would be major repercussions not only for themselves but for other economies as well.

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Lavanda » Sat May 14, 2016 3:17 pm

Agreed. It's a real problem for every country who lent money to Greece, for example, knowing that they would never get the money back. It impinges on investments, pensions and everything else but what is the alternative to sorting it out? Just let it go on for ever? That's not how history works. Everything and every civilisation has a rise and fall. We are in the beginning of a fall. We can shore it up as much as we like but it's like a pea stopping a train going downhill at 200kph. It's not going to work UNLESS someone does something radical and innovative PDQ. (Just don't ask me what!)


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