Catalonia and independence

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olive
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Catalonia and independence

Postby olive » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:48 pm

Like Scottish independence, this subject seems to rumble on.

Is there any likelyhood of them getting independence? If so how will that impact on us living in the "rest" of Spain? Everyone I talk to here is dead against. Presumably beacuse we would be worse off financially.

Mas was saying in El Pais that they might not take their share of the National Debt. Also said that banks wouldn't offer them liquidity and they wouldn't be able to join the EU and so on.

markwilding
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Re: Catalonia and independence

Postby markwilding » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:34 pm

I don't think it would impact Spain. Spain will just move any operations away from Catalonia.

It will never go away but whether or not they will have an official referendum is another matter.

Catalonia doesn't and has never had the same status as Scotland, which is a country. Catalonia has always been a part Spain or been a part of one of the old Spanish kingdoms.

Somewhere in the recent past an independence movement has built up from nothing due to people's resentment of other Spanish migrants coming from other parts of Spain.

They use old agreements between the old kingdoms for legal justification for their causes. These are dismissed by the Spanish government.

The rest of Spain resent them and they consider the reason Catalonia has a bigger economy is because of massive investment from central government, especially during the Franco years

It would be like a lord in Yorkshire given a right to collect a tax or create their own laws or money by a king 700 years ago and using those feudal laws, which in the rest of Europe would have been superseded, to say that independence was promised by the old king but never carried through.

markwilding
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Re: Catalonia and independence

Postby markwilding » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:29 am

It looks like the Nationalists would struggle to win an independence referendum. Although they won more seats, they didn't get over 50% of the vote.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2015/09/27/ine ... 42394.html

flyeogh
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Re: Catalonia and independence

Postby flyeogh » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:13 am

I'm not sure you can compare spain with the UK, Catalunya with Scotland. Catalunya would be leaving a broken, corrupt, economic disaster. And yes Catalunya has corruption but this is more easily addressed in a smaller entity I think. So there would be hope. Something Spain cannot offer.

But in truth the majority of people I've read and spoken to, including family there, simply want more autonomy.

But while a referendum that leads to a No with some offered autonomy goodies, as in Scotland, might appear attractive it is not an option for Madrid. It would almost automatically lead to a Basque issue.

One possibly hope is that Ciudanos (I'm not a supporter :wink: ) can win the next general election and with a power base in Catalunya and Madrid they can heal the wounds. I guess any result that breaks the old two party old pals act would help to some degree.

But it is interesting for sure 8)
El raton de watford

gus-lopez
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Re: Catalonia and independence

Postby gus-lopez » Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:49 pm

Heal what wounds ? They have wanted independence since Portugal attained it & Cataluñya could have done but didn't . They have regretted it bitterly for the last 987 years !!
For every euro they pay in to central government they receive back 8cents !! The other 92 are dished out around all the other regions with Andalucia receiving the largest amount, normally. That's why I've never met a Cataluñan with a good word to say about the region. :lol:
Todos somos Lorca.

markwilding
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Re: Catalonia and independence

Postby markwilding » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:22 pm

I suppose you mean not a good word about the Andalucian region but that doesn't change anywhere in Spain. It seems to me no region has a good word to say about any other region.

This is a typical argument regarding Catalunia and for that matter The Basque Country and they way they feel regarding wealth redistribution around Spain.

The economist Xavier Sala-Martín, Professor at Columbia University, often describes the situation as follows: “There are countries like the United States, where people pay few taxes and they receive few services in return; there are others, like Sweden, where people pay lots of taxes and receive excellent services in return. Catalonia is an unusual phenomenon because it pays lots of taxes but gets very few services in return

The problem with the argument is Sweden and the USA are countries and there are economic powerhouses within both countries which pay disproportionate taxes compared to less developed or isolated areas of their country.

Ukhozi
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Re: Catalonia and independence

Postby Ukhozi » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:00 pm

Independence will never be allowed by central government, they will just block any attempt at it, again and if needs be move in administrators and police to enforce legal rule.
The independents claim democracy is at stake but in real numbers a small minority voted for independence out of the total electorate.
So, it's NEVER going to happen, just like Gibraltar becoming Spanish, so they should just get over it, stop wasting time and money on it an d concentrate on running the region for the benefit of every resident.

As far as Gib' goes, if it ever did become Spanish or even co-rule, the companies that make it what it is would move operations to a more agreeable country and Gib' would just become an extension of that *beep* hole La Linia.
All comments should be taken in the spirit intended, Jack Danial's is fine. :lol:


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