First occupation licence (?)

[Jenny1960]

Apologies if I'm in the wrong section and, if I have the wrong name in the heading.
We had a lot of work done to our villa in San Pedro which was basically a rebuild. It was all done legally from beginning to end. My two questions are, what actually is a FIRST occupation licence, is it the first of two? Three? And secondly, how long does it take for the officer from the town hall to come round and issue it?
We have been waiting almost 18 months. Two fire officers did come round about a month ago but we've heard nothing at all since. Any info appreciated please!

[Enrique]

Hi jenny1960,

"We had a lot of work done to our villa in San Pedro which was basically a rebuild".........so not a new build........

"This is a legal concept applied only to new build property (also known as off plan); it does not apply to resale"

Full article below........

Some light reading........................

You need to Google here as I'm not allowed to post link...............

Sid and Beach will be along to add................

[Jenny1960]

Hi Enrique,
No, the original villa was built approximately 30 - 40 years ago and we've added extensions to it. The original outside walls are still here but a whole new roof has been added. Our architect is the one who told us we need the town hall to come round to measure everywhere t make sure we have kept within the original plans. It was he who told us it was called a 'first occupation licence' but what you say clearly makes sense.....

[chrissiehope]

We reformed an old (approx 70 yrs) 'casa de campo' and got what we initially thought was an LFO, but was actually a Certificate of Antiquity. This basically said the house was more than 10 years old; was habitable; and conformed to all legal building requirements. We didn't have a man from the Town Hall (actually I'm not sure about that, as a Spanish friend dealt with it while we were in UK), but we did have to submit full architects drawings; re-register with the catastro; and pay Hacienda for the increased value (we were asked to choose a figure - the greater the increase, the bigger the tax, but the less CGT in the long run !). We then ended up with an Escritura de Terminado de Obras Nuevas, which incorporated the original Escritura but reflected the changes made.

[Jenny1960]

Thanks for your reply chrissiehope,
I shall pass it onto my husband who understands it all a bit more but basically,
It sounds exactly like the same process we should expect. The architect has sent in everything and it's matter of waiting now. We've had an email from the Arquetecta this evening saying our case has been assigned to an officer but because Marbella town hall are so short staffed, it could be another three months or more before this 'officer' as he calls him,comes out.

[Enrique]

Hi jenny1960,
Sounds like LFO is a Town Hall project of the Month............

Like you we had some major works done.....complete roof replacement. Had to get Certificate of Antiquity before we could start project. At the end of project got Certificado final de Obra........this enabled us to reclaim the upfront "fines" we had to pay before the project even started.......for removal of rubble and road damage , this bit took six months.
The the Town hall then decided that we needed LFO......and gave a list of requirements to get it........as we have one non compliant item we have decided at this stage to stop there.

So if you're fully compliant with your Town Hall requirements then LFO will not be a problem for you.

As far as I can see LFO is only required if you sell and the buyer is getting a mortgage, there are some other bits listed on various sites that can be found with a quick Google (there are other search engines).........

[wollie]

"So if you're fully compliant with your Town Hall requirements then LFO will not be a problem for you."

"As far as I can see LFO is only required if you sell and the buyer is getting a mortgage, there are some other bits listed on various sites that can be found with a quick Google (there are other search engines)........."

Enrique,

You seem to know bit about this...
My friend who built a total reform with all "the licence for obras with full architect plans"
However he was not aware and did not get an LFO as was not aware at the time, they are connected for all the services and the people who were advising at the time not in Spain anymore...
He is concerned if they wanted to sell there be a problem but there no plans to sell, it is interesting that you say it is only required if people are looking for mortgage....
My advise to him was to leave very well alone... be interested in your comments?

many thanks...

[Enrique]

Hi wollie,
LFO applies to new builds..........the Developer would apply to Town Hall and they in turn would check the Development/build was as per Planning and grant the LFO, Utilities would be connected up and every one is happy...........

The following is based in my area (see my Profile) and as they say it may not be the same where you are.

70 year old house connected to Utilities
Recently submitted Plans through Architect (€€€€) for roof replacement (€€€€€), a Technical Architect was assigned to oversee project, this was sighed off when completed. Now the Town Hall says it needs LFO...........hello people have been living in it for 70 years............

Our Architect initially applied for LFO, but realising we had a non compliant item advised to let the Town Hall file it away and not proceed.
Architect "can sort it out should the need arise"

That's it...........would be interested with Beachcomber's take on this......as Mrs Beach is a Lawyer......

[Jenny1960]

Can I ask what LFO stands for?

[Enrique]

Hi jenny1960,
LFO Licence of First Occupation........... Licencia de Primera Ocupación................

"The Licence of First Occupation is a certificate issued by the town hall (ayuntamiento) that confirms that a newly-built property fully complies with all planning and building regulations, and is fit to be used as a dwelling."

Why they want it for an old property is anybody's guess...........

[Trooperman]

Why they want it for an old property is anybody's guess...........

It's usually a purchaser's lawyer who will ask....covering his @rse.........because without one it may be deemed illegal.. As it may be impossible to issue one in retrospect for an older building, we now have the whole new world of DAFOs to explore

there's a thread here on it:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=34526&p=335390#p335390

[Jenny1960]

Thank you Enrique,
I am totally confused now as to what or who we are waiting for to come round!
According to our arquetect, a 'Maria Casas' from the town hall has been assigned to our 'case'

[wollie]

The house I refer to is owned by a friend but I am kinda familiar as we bought our properties at the same time and I looked in when I was over during build work...
I did have a look at the thread Trooperman mentioned and there is a very good contribution from Beachcomber...

The property I mention was bought and licence applied for and granted...
During the course of the licence application it seems that it was said it should be licence for new build, it seems that the town hall had pretty well told the architect that the licence for reform be granted and would not go back on their word so the licence was granted on condition that an engineer test the concrete structure and sign off on same...
When it came to connecting the water (I think) there was a request from the town hall for a document, the town hall would not give this, they were also asked if they give a letter to say it was not required and would not do this... (this must have been the said LFO)
None of us knew anything about LFO and it only came up in conversation when a friend of ours were selling they realized this document was not in place...
At the time this was discovered the architect who is not Spanish and had returned to their home country, this all took place 5 or 6 years ago and there is no problems but be better to know...

many thanks

[chrissiehope]

wollie - just curious - did the architect by any chance have the initials P J ?

[Jenny1960]

Good morning again,
I wrote to my arquetect asking why we are waiting for a 'first occupation licence' when it's not a new build and this is the reply I have just received from his secretary.....




I received your mail for the last week and I answered you. We apply the
'first occupation license' for all the house because after the reform the
house has changed, the only thing that has not changed is the garage. We are
waiting from the town hall is the technical go to your house and check the
house corresponds what is reflected in the project.

[wollie]

wollie - just curious - did the architect by any chance have the initials P J ?

I must have done something wrong as I thought I replied ages ago...
The archictect not PJ.... she was Spanish and brilliant... if she was around she would have sorted but it was not until about 2 years after she left my friends first heard of LFO...
Someone said on this thread that it can be sold without so if this is the case all ok....

[Trooperman]

it can be sold without

As alluded to above, that is correct: it is up to the purchaser's lawyer to advise his/her client to ask for one or not. Notaries around here (inland Costa de Sol) are quite content to process a sale without a LFO. In the absence of a LFO (with the liklehood of getting one, in retrospect, virtually at zero) they may ask for a DAFO - Declaration Asimilado Fuera de Ordinacion.

[wollie]

DAFO - Declaration Asimilado Fuera de Ordinacion.

Trooper... that's a great help solve one problem by creating another.... what the hell is DAFT?

regards

[Trooperman]

as I noted in a previous post. it's all here:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=34526&p=335390#p335390

[wollie]

regards and thanks....