Sexual Equality

[amheuwr]

Having just been on holiday in Spain, Costa de la Luz area it was noticeable that quite a few of the small villages we visited had the typical small squares, several bars full of men and not many women roaming around. My main concern here is, is Spain still treating it's women as second class citizens or is there actual change as many of the glossy magazines lead us to believe? Comments from those resident in Spain itself would be greatly appreciated.

[hillybilly]

Spain is still behind the times when it comes to sexual equality but then it has only been a democracy for what, 30 years now? In Franco's time, women were financially dependant on men and domestic violence wasn't considered a crime. Contraception and abortion were illegal so women were likely to be pregnant or child-rearing or both for most of their adult lives. Change is happening but with a time lag compared to, say, the UK. It is still, on the whole, a very macho society where the women do the housework, the shopping, the cooking, the child-raising....Our Spanish teacher, Rosa, who is only in her mid-twenties told us about her younger brother who was treated like royalty at home and not expected to perform chores, unlike his sisters. When Rosa wanted to go off to Holland to study her father tried forcibly to prevent her.
The "new" Spanish PM, Zapatero seems to be quite enlightened though. 50% of the government cabinet posts are held by women and we have the first female deputy PM in Spain's history. There are also rumours that the archaic rules of male succession to the Spanish royal throne will be changed. One up on the UK there then!

[amheuwr]

We are hoping to move out to Spain in the near future and have an 11 year old daughter. We obviously have to make sure that everything will be OK for our children. My wife studied in Seville and lived on Mallorca for a couple of years many moons ago and some of the things we saw on holiday reminded her of Spain 20 years ago. We do intend renting for 6 to 12 months before we buy a property, and this should give us a good insight to what things will be like, but it is always interesting to get other opinions. Being on holiday and living somewhere are obviously very different things.

[silver]

Spain still treating it's women as second class citizens

Although Spanish men are "macho" the Spanish women have never been second class. Today Spanish women that live in towns are very women's lib, most men under 35 have to do household chores...and believe me women take control. Village women however still stay at home as housewives while the men are the bread winners. The women don't go to the bars,(it is their choice and not because they are banned) as these are like men's clubs a reunion place where they drink, chat football politics and sex, none of which are very interesting to the women, who prefer to stay at home with the rest of the family, go shopping or have women's reunions. .. look at Spanish TV, adverts and local series and you will get a real idea of Spanish life today. There have been and still are a few wife beaters and even wife killers around due to the fact that the men are having a rough time simulating the change and rebelling against the new women domination...but the majority of attached males are resigning to do the washing up and change nappies and dont have much time left to go to bars.

[El Cid]

50% of the government cabinet posts are held by women and we have the first female deputy PM in Spain's history.

It seems to be spredding to Andalucia.

When I built my house the estate agent, gestor, architect, lawyer, notary and the registrar were all women.

Where have all the men gone!

Sid

[hillybilly]

Spanish women have never been second class.

I have to take issue with you on this statement. What would be your definition of a second class citizen?

Somebody perhaps denied access to a proper, basic education such that there is a high rate of illiteracy amongst the older ones even now?

Somebody prohibited from entering university on an equal footing with others?

Somebody who cannot work without another’s permission?

Somebody who is paid half of what another person is paid for doing the same job?

Somebody who is not allowed access to their own money and assets without another’s permission?

Somebody prohibited from entering certain professions?

Somebody without equal rights within the family with respect to money, property, children etc?

Somebody who is punished more severely than another for the same crime (adultery)?

Somebody who cannot even open a bank account or sign a contract without another’s permission?

All the above were what women had to endure during Franco’s reign. In my book that made them second class citizens.

If I had a young daughter I would not bring her to Spain for her education because girls here simply do not yet get the same opportunities that are available to them in the UK.

[silver]

If I had a young daughter I would not bring her to Spain for her education because girls here simply do not yet get the same opportunities that are available to them in the UK.

Today Spanish universities have more females then males...and opportunities..read el cid

When I built my house the estate agent, gestor, architect, lawyer, notary and the registrar were all women.

But true that Spanish (both genders)

do not yet get the same opportunities that are available to them in the UK.

What would be your definition of a second class citizen?

In my mind there is no such thing.

[sunkissed]

You'll find the cafes full of women at certain times, for example in the morning after the schools have opened

[spanish hopes]

Well I for one can't wait for sexual equality to arrive here in the UK, women have had top billing for far too long.

[amheuwr]

All the replies have been appreciated and will be borne in mind.

[silver]

sexual equality..all Spanish have two surnames, one they get from their father and the other from the mother. Why dont English women have the same rights...sexual equality

[hillybilly]

But they do! I have my mother's surname as my "middle" name and my father's surname as my last name. Been twice married and never changed my name. It's only convention, not law, that a woman takes a husband's name.

[silver]

"middle" name

sorry what is a middle name?

Been twice married and never changed my name.

If you are a man..then your name would not change when getting married.

[spanish hopes]

Hilary, 'Hillybilly' is definately not a man.

[hillybilly]

Thank you Spanish Hopes

Yes, I'm female as has been pointed out on here before. But, I do know men who have changed their surname on marrying to that of their wife. Why not?

By middle name I mean the one that goes between my first ("Christian") name and my last name (surname). What else do you call it? Didn't think "middle" was that hard a word to understand! Never mind.

[jpinks]

I also have my mothers surname and my fathers surname - and my own first name, and I am male. My daughter decided to have her new husbands surname tacked onto her existing surname, so she is now "double-barrelled"! - Yes, she rides horses too In former times in celtic culture it was the mothers family name that was given to the children, not the fathers.

[silver]

By middle name I mean the one that goes between my first ("Christian") name and my last name (surname). What else do you call it? Didn't think "middle" was that hard a word to understand! Never mind.

I always understood that we only had one surname, and all names that came before were Christian names, first, second, third.ect and "double-barrelled"was used to distinguis any additional names added to the surname

[jpinks]

I always understood that we only had one surname, and all names that came before were Christian names, first, second, third.ect and "double-barrelled"was used to distinguis any additional names added to the surname

Christian names only apply to christian people if they were christened. A better term is forenames, or given names.
I would agree with Silver - "middle" is confusing - what happens if you have four names, which one is the middle name? I used the "double-barrelled" to mean hyphenated. I don't think it's possible to have two surnames.

[hillybilly]

Hmmm yes I see. However my last names are not hyphenated, what I refer to as my middle name is not a classic Christian (fore) name (it was a surname) and I'm not a Christian either! It's easier to deal with in Spain!

[jpinks]

Hmmm yes I see. However my last names are not hyphenated, what I refer to as my middle name is not a classic Christian (fore) name (it was a surname) and I'm not a Christian either! It's easier to deal with in Spain!

OK - so you have a given name and two family names - no big deal in Spain at all, I have the same name configuration and the Spanish understand it perfectly. I think it's only the Brits that have trouble with this.