border control delays...

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ashtondav
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border control delays...

Postby ashtondav » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 am

...are becoming intolerable and will get worse as the season progresses and we get to Olympic time. If you want to make your feelings felt, either to complain or to congratulate border control on their 3rd world treatment of passengers, here's the email address:

[email protected]

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Julie
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Re: border control delays...

Postby Julie » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:42 am

Or maybe we should thank them for trying to keep us all safe !
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Re: border control delays...

Postby detourer » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:17 am

What bit about standing in a tightly packed crowd for nearly an hour is making us safe?

A perfect target for maximum effect for both victims and effect.

Nothing more than inefficient, failed security equipment and at best disinterested staff and managment.

..
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Re: border control delays...

Postby masterob » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:33 am

ashtondav wrote:
If you want to make your feelings felt, either to complain or to congratulate border control on their 3rd world treatment of passengers,..
Long queues are commonplace in many of the major US airports but I would hardly call the USA third world!
Would you prefer it if all and sundry were let in with minimal checks? Of course, you could recruit more Inspecting Officers then someone would be complaining about the high number of public sector employees. Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

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Re: border control delays...

Postby frank » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:01 am

There always will be those that would want us to simply wave everyone through to avoid them being inconvenienced a couple of times a year. Last year some of the checks were relaxed and the boss had his head on the block for daring to speed things up, there was a chorus of disapproval from all and sundry, questions asked in the house etc. Personally if people trying to enter UK are kept waiting a few hours to ensure the safety of the UK, so be it, if they don't like it, tough. At least they'll get in, unlike the hundreds of cancelled flights in Spain due to the 30 days of pilots strike.
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Campo Steve
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Re: border control delays...

Postby Campo Steve » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:23 am

detourer wrote:What bit about standing in a tightly packed crowd for nearly an hour is making us safe

..
The bit that means everyone's passport is being checked.

Yes, queues can be long, just as they are in other countries. We've queued for ages in US, even when only in transit. New Zealand was experiencing lengthening queues at Auckland which they solved by putting in more desks and employing more staff. But they are busy all year round. They didn't relax controls.

I do believe the Border Agency should employ more staff, but not to suit the Olympics. Get a happy medium to reduce queues but accept that the Olympics is a special event and queues will happen.
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Re: border control delays...

Postby chrissiehope » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:50 am

Given the level of technology available these days, it can't be that difficult to coordinate staffing levels to match flight arrivals ? I am happy(well, -ish) to wait in a queue, providing it isn't being caused by seven empty desks and one poor soul trying to cope on their own :crazy:
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Re: border control delays...

Postby katy » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:52 am

I suspect it's the Civil Service union pushing the agenda. We have flown into Heathrow twice this year and never noticed more than an average queue (about 20 mins). Asked my Brother who flies in around 4 times per month, sometimes more and he says ave. 30 mins. Not saying it hasn't happened but it's not all the time like the media are portraying. They should get a few casual staff for peak periods.

Have waited 1 hour for USA and St. Lucia.

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Re: border control delays...

Postby quebin » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:12 pm

It's more likely that Teresa May has got her"dates wrong"rather than trying to blame unions who don't have any say in staffing levels.

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Re: border control delays...

Postby Free at Last » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:18 pm

[quote="katy"] They should get a few casual staff for peak periods.

quote]

It's not exactly like getting a few people in now and then to work in McDonalds and ask "Do you want fries with that, is it?". Do you want trained, responsible and motivated people in charge of who is potentially challenged and refused entry to the UK, or any old Tom, *beep* or Harriet from the dole queue?

The UKBA is now going to bring back retired border control staff to provide extra staffing during the Olympics - and pay them a highly hourly rate than the permanent staff, put them up in hotels and pay them subsistence allowances. Just like the NHS paying a fortune for agency nurses because permanent staffing levels are too low, this will end up costing more in the long run.

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Re: border control delays...

Postby katy » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:26 pm

In the USA any doubts about an entrant is taken to a seperate area immediately, keeps the queue moving :D The Immigration officer on the desk doesn't have to be highly trained in that case.

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Re: border control delays...

Postby quebin » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:39 pm

But the UK is not the USA thank goodness.

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Re: border control delays...

Postby ashtondav » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:49 pm

Queues are not caused by thorough checks.

Queues are caused by not having enough staff.

Complain.

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Campo Steve
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Re: border control delays...

Postby Campo Steve » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:13 pm

ashtondav wrote:Queues are not caused by thorough checks.

Queues are caused by not having enough staff.

Complain.
Agreed, but I think it is too late now to take on a lot of staff and have them all properly trained ready for the Olympics. It isn't just a case of sticking a passport in a machine. They need to be able to recognise things like forgeries. Hence I think it would be better to take on a smaller number and give them intensive training, accepting there will still be some queuing.
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Re: border control delays...

Postby Free at Last » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:32 pm

The queues that people are already complaining about are nothing to do with the Olympics, and are not going to go away after the Games are over. They are happening because staff numbers have been reduced too far and there are just not enough people available to do the job within a reasonable space of time.

I have had experience of managing a service in a UK regulatory authority where senior management would not allow permanent vacancies to be filled because the organisation's "headcount" must be kept below a certain level to meet political directives - we would be told to "get a temp in" instead. We had to stop using the Job Centre to recruit temporary staff because, quite frankly, the calibre of people they sent along was nothing short of abysmal, so that meant either advertising directly (both expensive and time consuming, and a long lead in time to get people in post allowing for adverts to be placed, applications submitted, shortlisting and interviewing to take place and references to be taken up) or using a private employment agency - quicker but very expensive in terms of the hourly rate which had to be paid to staff recruited in this way. Even to carry out admin duties, it took a minimum of 3 months before temporary staff were capable of carrying out all the functions involved and during that time permanent staff had to be taken off their duties to provide the necessary training and extra supervision required. Obviously, as soon as the temporary person was able to secure a permanent job elsewhere, they would leave and the whole cycle started over again. It's no way to run a whelk stall let alone an organisation with an important job to do.

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Re: border control delays...

Postby detourer » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:41 pm

You walk upto a booth....one of the very few that has someone..a person takes your passport and passes it under a scanner that tells him /her something or not....... 3 months training needed.

Around the edge of the imigration area are a few dozen auto/scan booths, all tapped off as they do not work.........add another few million to scape and replace.

Welcome to the real world!
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Re: border control delays...

Postby Free at Last » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:03 pm

detourer wrote:You walk upto a booth....one of the very few that has someone..a person takes your passport and passes it under a scanner that tells him /her something or not....... 3 months training needed.

Around the edge of the imigration area are a few dozen auto/scan booths, all tapped off as they do not work.........add another few million to scape and replace.

Welcome to the real world!
It's the unhappy queuing passengers who are finding themselves in the "real world" IMO.

And I didn't say that 3 months' training was required for the Border Control staff, I was talking about the organisation I worked in. I have absolutely no idea how much training the Border Control people need to be able to do their job properly, and neither do you. I strongly suspect it's rather more than finding a uniform to fit them, saying sit in front of this PC and wave the passport over this scanner, and away you go, though.

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Re: border control delays...

Postby ashtondav » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 pm

No, for EU citizens it is just a swipe of the passport through the scanner. The technology then says YES, NO, or FURTHER CHECKS. It's a 10 second process.

A monkey could do it.

In almost all other EU countries there are no passport controls between borders. Do business between any of them and the UK and you Queue for an hour.

Complain and send an email demanding improvements.

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Re: border control delays...

Postby katy » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:33 pm

Well I am still sceptical, whenever I see press reports of the civil service unions claim/predict/warn :think: I don't understand why the public is being blasted with news of this all the time. How many of the public has ever been to terminal 5 let alone been in a queue. Probably less than 5% Needs sorting but the answer is not more Civil Servants...thought the intention was to reduce them. Contract it out for the Olympics, they may need training but it's not exactly specialist level is it.

No-one seems to be whinging about airline check-in queues which can take just as long.

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Re: border control delays...

Postby ashtondav » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:02 pm

No-one seems to be whinging about airline check-in queue
Because most people have the option to check in on-line.


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