Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

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Beachcomber
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:02 pm

Hopefully that will work for imputed tax on the new form. I think most people would prefer that the funds were taken from their account immediately rather than wait until the end of the year when it is too late to do anything about it if the debit is not made.

Any further information would be greatly appreciated. I will include this in the FAQ when I have everything clear in my head. Thanks for your help so far.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Marc1970 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:11 am

Hi guys, thanks for super-fast and super-helpful replies!
I have tried “to deposit” option and “get NRC”, but at the end of the procedure got the error:
"79 NIF del firmante no titular a la cuenta"
I’ve tried several times. Since it’s definitely me filling the form with mine Certificado Digital :) its my bank account and my NIF (NIE) as a Taxpayer, I can only imagine that it’s another nasty surprise from my La Caixa Bank. I guess that they hold me in the database under my passport No (although they have my NIE as well). Or they had entered the NIE incorrectly... I will write them, but I’m afraid I will run out of time until they reply and find the solution.

I’ll try with option “debit my account” and see what happens.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Marc1970 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:00 am

I was playing with my La Caixa internet client (online banking), which offers payment of modelo 210.
I’ve made the payment of 0,01eur to AEAT just to see what happens at the end.
Together with transfer details, the system generated NRC (22 digits) and this information:
" It is important to take note of the assigned N.R.C. or to print this page."
" You will receive, by post, the receipt of the transaction which provides the discharge from payment with the Public Treasury stated in the General Tax Collection Regulation."
" Remember that once you have payment made you must submit the tax return on the same day."

So, I guess what one should do next is to enter the AEAT website (on the same day), fill the form, chose “to deposit” paying option, enter NRC, and finish with “sign and send”. The form should be connected with the payment by NRC.
Anybody did it this way?

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:54 am

Beachcomber wrote:Hopefully that will work for imputed tax on the new form. I think most people would prefer that the funds were taken from their account immediately rather than wait until the end of the year when it is too late to do anything about it if the debit is not made.

Any further information would be greatly appreciated. I will include this in the FAQ when I have everything clear in my head. Thanks for your help so far.


I can confirm that it does indeed work that way for imputed tax also. I just did that yesterday and the tax was immediately debited from our bank account. (I do both imputed and rental income filings because we rent our place for only part of the year).

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:07 am

Marc1970 wrote:Hi guys, thanks for super-fast and super-helpful replies!
I have tried “to deposit” option and “get NRC”, but at the end of the procedure got the error:
"79 NIF del firmante no titular a la cuenta"
I’ve tried several times. Since it’s definitely me filling the form with mine Certificado Digital :) its my bank account and my NIF (NIE) as a Taxpayer, I can only imagine that it’s another nasty surprise from my La Caixa Bank. I guess that they hold me in the database under my passport No (although they have my NIE as well). Or they had entered the NIE incorrectly... I will write them, but I’m afraid I will run out of time until they reply and find the solution.

I’ll try with option “debit my account” and see what happens.


I've run into that same thing with my bank. The problem was that my NIF on my bank account is my passport number, not my NIE. Even though the bank does have my NIE. So it doesn't match the NIF in my digital certificate.

You can try getting your bank to change that. If not, you'll have to pay another way.

Marc1970 wrote:I was playing with my La Caixa internet client (online banking), which offers payment of modelo 210.
I’ve made the payment of 0,01eur to AEAT just to see what happens at the end.
Together with transfer details, the system generated NRC (22 digits) and this information:
" It is important to take note of the assigned N.R.C. or to print this page."
" You will receive, by post, the receipt of the transaction which provides the discharge from payment with the Public Treasury stated in the General Tax Collection Regulation."
" Remember that once you have payment made you must submit the tax return on the same day."

So, I guess what one should do next is to enter the AEAT website (on the same day), fill the form, chose “to deposit” paying option, enter NRC, and finish with “sign and send”. The form should be connected with the payment by NRC.
Anybody did it this way?


Yes, I have done it that way. That's what I was going to suggest after reading your first reply.

And yes, you take the NRC that you get from the bank payment, insert it into the form and sign and send. Make sure you do keep track of that NRC when you do the payment. I don't know how your bank's online banking works, but with mine I copied and used the NRC from the receipt that was generated when I made the payment. But I couldn't find a way to get it again later after I closed that confirmation page.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Marc1970 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:49 pm

I went with “direct debit” to explore that option.
There was a warning that taxpayer must be account holder with corresponding NIF/NIE so that debit could be accepted by the bank. After “save and send” I got the PDF generated.
This leaves me questioning if La Caixa will accept this payment since they have me registered with passport number. I was presenting them my NIE on several occasions, on paper and digital, and they must have it in their system. But how will they react in this situation is so unpredictable. Im afraid that some robot just refuses the payment. This is also is the reason why I wasn’t able to generate NRC directly from the AEAT website.
I’ve send an email to the bank to inform about this, but honestly don’t expect much of them.

Under “My records” I was able to find payment order scheduled for 21/01/2019.
There is an option to modify it to revoke it.
If I revoke, than the option to pay with on-line banking stays. But where to enter the NRC afterwards?
The tax form is already filled, sitting under “My Records”, I cant enter it or modify it.

Also, If I leave the situation as it is, and the payment gets refused on 21/01/2019…what to do in that situation? Paying with on-line bank is one thing, but how to connect the payment with the Modelo that is already filled?

Thanks for walking through this “mine field” with me. :)

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm

If the bank has you registered with your passport number this will not work even though they have your NIE number on record. You need to insist that they change it.

Can you speak Spanish? You could call the helpline on 901335533 (I think it will work from abroad with +34) Explain the situation and see what they suggest. Make a note of the date and time of the call and, if you have the facility, record it. In the event that you subsequently receive a fine and surcharges on the late payment at least you will be able to demonstrate that you did everything possible to make the payment.

Is there anyone in Spain to whom you could send the form for payment in cash at a bank? It does not necessarily have to be paid in your own bank. This will take care of the pending payment and give you time to sort things out for the next payment. You could then revoke the payment due on 21st January.

Hopefully Ericsbcn may be able to come up with a more viable solution.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby chrissiehope » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:23 pm

I don't know if this will help - I hope so !
My bank (Unicaja) has a section for paying bills, including Renta. I do not have a digital cert, so I fill out the modelo, and then pay online via Unicaja. I then send (by post) a copy of the completed modelo to the tax office (in Antequera in my case) with a covering letter.
This seems to have worked OK last year, so I've done it again this year. I print receipts from the online payment & keep then with the relevant modelo.
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ericsbcn
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:51 pm

Marc1970 -

Unless you can get your bank to change your "fiscal identifier" from your passport number to your NIE before the 21st, I'm betting that the bank will reject the debit on that date. And if that happens, I have no idea what you should do next. Maybe try Beachcomer's suggestion of calling the helpline.

Why didn't you go with the option of paying on your bank website and using the resulting NRC to file the 210? We know that works and you even proved it yourself with your test 0,01eur payment.

Good luck.
- Eric S.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Marc1970 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:46 pm

Thanks all for support!
Test transfer with 0.01 worked. But with bigger amount, they asked apart from code number (they give you the card with codes when you open the account to perform online payments) also an sms confirmation code which is send on Spanish mobile. Another trap! As I don't reside in Spain, and didn't have my Spanish phone card handy, I went to explore "debit my account" option.
I just got the Spanish phone card, and think to do to the following:
- cancel the payment on AEAT (the filling will stay but nothing will be paid)
- pay with by online bank, get the NRC
- make new modelo 210 on AEAT website for 4T, (same as previos) and insert the NRC
I only wonder if it is possible to make two models of 210. I hope the first one wont confuse them. Share your thougst please, before I get in even more mess... evetually at the end we'll all have the right answer and procedure.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Marc1970 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:40 pm

The link on revoking the payments:
https://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.i ... cion.shtml

The most part is about changing IBAN, and only the last sentence abot revoking:
"If you want to revoke the direct debit order, remember that you have two options for regularising the situation: make the payment or request a recognition of debt."

The link how to pay:
https://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.i ... NRC_.shtml

In my case, I must get the NRC from the on-line bank, and than enter it somewhere during the process described that link page ^ ...
I cant generate NRC from the AEAT system directly, I must get it first from my bank.
Or make new 210, and put NRC there. I don't know if the cancellation of payment cancels the tax declaration itself, or they will start wondering why the first one was filled and not payed.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Marc1970 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:16 pm

Did it!
After pressing "revoke" , the AEAT didnt let me go just like that...)) A new window poped up, demanding the NRC ... I fired up online banking, this time armed with Spanish mobile, and made the transfer.
Online bank is showing the transfer done to the AEAT.
Is there a way to see if the AEAT had recieved it? Some kind of "history of previous payments" ? Any section under My records?

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:18 pm


Marc1970
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Marc1970 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:38 pm

Yes, following the links I can see them in a form of Tax declaration, but am looking to find something like "STATUS" - " paid "

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Marc1970 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:06 pm

One more thing that I have noticed while filling 210 and that I want to share and discuss here with you.

The system didn’t let me complete the form, until I had completed the field:
“Payer/Withholder/Issuer/Property purchaser” (not to be confused with Taxpayer field)
It didn’t ask for NIF, but I had to fill > F/J and >Name.
If i was to do this “by the book” than probably I would need to make ~20 modelos 210, for each income coming from each group of guests.
For example:
- Lisa rented for 3 days for 300e…first modelo 210 - 4T/2108, tax on 300 income, (name in payer field: Lisa)
- John rented for 5 days for 500e…second modelo 210 - 4T/2018, tax on 500 income, (name in payer field: John)

Also I have noticed the field > Supplementary self-assessment, saying:
" If this self-assessment is supplementary to another previous payment corresponding to the same item, year or period, tick this box.
In this case, indicate below the receipt number of the previous self-assessment.
Receipt number from previous self-assessment … "

I guess that receipt No , SHOULD BE THE NRC number from previous payment? Why didn’t they say “insert NRC from previous payment”
(Suppose one is doing this online using Digital Certicate)

At this moment I was happy enough to be able to do on-line payment. Making dozens of 210's was overwhelming.
I made one modelo 210, stating the entire income from 4T/2018 and inserted my name as “payer” because I couldnt leave that field empty. (again not to be confused with Taxpayer field).
IMHO, the form is meant in the way to make one Modelo 210 for each income within the quarter.
I wonder if Spanish gestores do it this way at all? They would need to charge in thousands assuming that one modelo costs 30-50eur.
How do you others cope with this?

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:48 pm

Yes, I have mentioned this before. It is certainly the opinion of the head of the non-residents department in Málaga that a separate declaration should be made for each person renting. It remains to be seen whether they will take this to its absurd extreme

Unfortunately the tax office seems to prefer to nit-pick people who are desperately trying to do things properly rather than track down tax dodgers which is probably a more difficult task.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Cornflake4 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:12 pm

Beachcomber wrote:Cornflake4, I didn't realise that you had a CSV number. I didn't think that became available until the payment was secured. AEAT may track down the new bank account and take the money from there. I think you should be alert to the possibility that you may end up paying twice.

If this happens please report back and I will try to explain how to go about obtaining a refund of one of the amounts.


Hello Beachcomber and thank you for following up, much appreciated!
I hope you're having a lovely weekend.

I didn't have access to the internet for a few days so only just now see your post.

Tried to post both my Father's tax returns this afternoon and guess what?
Just like Marc1970, it refuses to process the payment.
Digging a bit, I realised that the new bank account is registered under my Father's (foreign) passport so I guess that this is why it's not happening.
On top of it, there's actually a typo on the passport number!
I fired an email to the bank about it but the bank manager is away until Tuesday so we'll see then!

Re the payment being taken twice, I guess this is not going to happen now in light of the NIF not matching...every cloud blahblahblah ;-)
But I'll keep an eye and follow your link to reclaim if this happens.

Oh and a quick question, I'm using Firefox and when I click on the new link for the Modelo 210 for 2018 (with Dgital certificate), it takes me to:

https://www1.agenciatributaria.gob.es/w ... ul?MOD=210
Recuperación de declaraciones presentadas
Aviso:
Los datos copiados de declaraciones anteriores, no tienen por qué coincidir con los del periodo que se quiere presentar o con los de liquidaciones que haya realizado la Administración.
Tras indicar los datos de la declaración a realizar y pulsar el botón "Buscar", se mostrarán SOLO las declaraciones presentadas previamente que puede utilizar. Por ejemplo, para el modelo 131 no podrán utilizarse declaraciones anteriores al ejercicio 2015.


So I've been using this link instead:
https://www1.agenciatributaria.gob.es/w ... /index.zul

Is it correct?

Many thanks!

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:30 pm

Thank you for the information concerning the link. I have now changed it. Could you please try it again.

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Enrique
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Enrique » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:43 pm

Hi Beachcomber,
Link works to correct form now.
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:50 pm

OK, thanks. I think AEAT IT has been playing around with the web pages. I will check all the other links tomorrow.


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