Anti-smoking laws???????

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ICCSL
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Smoking laws

Postby ICCSL » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:42 pm

I agree Katy. I have to say that I really don't take issue with non smokers but just as they all seem to want their wishes respected I feel mine should be respected also. Just because they don't agree with me smoking and have concerns about my health etc etc., doesn't mean they are right and at 54 I have make my own choices.

I am not sure where citymike goes but I am not sure that the Spaniards would have immediate respect for him because he is English. A phrase often heard in Albox from Spaniards is that they have "la basura del Inglaterra" living in their town.

If he came in my bar and said he didn't like people smoking he would be told to go elsewhere not only by the Spaniards but also by any other nationality. It all comes back to the same thing, smoking has been so much part of Spanish culture that it would be very hard to enforce the law. And one of the nice things about Spain is even if you break the law the penalty is not going to mean the end of the world.

Filling in endless complaint forms in the complaints book will ultimately not achieve the law being enforced but someone finding a way to ban the person making the complaints from their bar or restaurant. In Spain it is often a case of who you know and not what you know. You imagine a scenario where because the owner of the restaurant happens to have a relative in the Guardia Civil your life becomes a nightmare when they stop you daily for any minor misdemeanor they can dream up
Tina

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Postby katy » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:49 pm

Yes thats true, enchufismo is alive in spain. Being liked and accepted can save you the odd hassle if you get stopped and don't have your documents or putting stuff in the skip at the wrong time of day. :) My neighbour's son is in the local police and I have his full name embedded in my brain...just incase :wink:

Hey we shall have to stop agreeing or we will become the Katy and Tina show :wink:

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Postby Wicksey » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:58 pm

Campo Kenny wrote: The people who we've met who have been typical ex pat moaning nit pickers is incredible, and the rules they lay down beggar belief. i.e. swimming pool rules, no paper down the bog rules, no glasses within 10 metres of the pool rules, no this and no the other.
Kenny
Can't say I've come across this type Kenny but maybe like you we tend to have like-minded friends. Come to think of it none of our friends here now are smokers, so I don't usually have to bark "no-smoking in the house" the moment they come in :lol:. Years ago a surveyor came to our house when we were selling it and took out an large, evil smelling pipe and stuck it in his gob, then said "mind if I smoke?". I think the look of horror on our faces told him the answer :D. I don't think many people presume they can smoke in other people's houses these days, and those smokers I do know even choose not to smoke in their own.

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Re: Smoking laws

Postby citymike » Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:12 pm

ICCSL wrote: I am not sure where citymike goes but I am not sure that the Spaniards would have immediate respect for him because he is English. A phrase often heard in Albox from Spaniards is that they have "la basura del Inglaterra" living in their town.
I'm a tall and dashingly handsome man in the prime of my life and so the Spanish show me enormous respect just on my appearance. When I tell them that I am Irish they open up a lot, I never hear them speak of nice and respectful British people but maybe there aren't any of those in my town.
ICCSL wrote: If he came in my bar and said he didn't like people smoking he would be told to go elsewhere not only by the Spaniards but also by any other nationality. It all comes back to the same thing, smoking has been so much part of Spanish culture that it would be very hard to enforce the law. And one of the nice things about Spain is even if you break the law the penalty is not going to mean the end of the world.
It doesn't say a lot for Spanish law, does it?
ICCSL wrote: In Spain it is often a case of who you know and not what you know. You imagine a scenario where because the owner of the restaurant happens to have a relative in the Guardia Civil your life becomes a nightmare when they stop you daily for any minor misdemeanor they can dream up
That sounds like a fascist state. I like the idea of fascism but I'm not sure that it works in practise, although the uniforms are usually adorable.

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Re: Smoking laws

Postby peteroldracer » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:21 pm

citymike wrote: the uniforms are usually adorable.
Blimey mike - getting a bit camp, aren't you? :shock: :D
As for giving people the benefit of the doubt, I used to do this, but spending hours searching for a piece of broken glass in the pool, and paying 300€ for a truck to come and empty a septic tank laced with condoms, tampons and face-wipes soon removes any doubts that 90% of people are unthinking, thick, or just not aware that what we have here is not mains sewage as they know it. I am searching the internet for some sort of cartoon sign that tells people the what-goes-down-the-toilet rules, before this year's influx of visitors. I would rather try and tell them than have a family feud start because I have had to ask someone to pay for a sewage tanker, or to drain and refill the pool.
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Postby concorde » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:53 pm

One saying always sticks in my mind 'never assume, as it make an ass out of u and me'

I find a lot of people do things on holiday they would never dream of doing at home.
I'm always disappointed when a liar's pants don't actually catch on fire.

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Re: Smoking laws

Postby Campo Kenny » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:17 pm

peteroldracer wrote: 90% of people are unthinking, thick,
Yep, that's what I was saying about carefully choosing who we spend time with :idea:

Kenny

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Postby peteroldracer » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:26 pm

Problem is that one must spend time with them to find out if..... :?
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Re: Smoking laws

Postby Retro P » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:50 pm

ICCSL wrote:I agree Katy. I have to say that I really don't take issue with non smokers but just as they all seem to want their wishes respected I feel mine should be respected also. Just because they don't agree with me smoking and have concerns about my health etc etc., doesn't mean they are right and at 54 I have make my own choices.

I am not sure where citymike goes but I am not sure that the Spaniards would have immediate respect for him because he is English. A phrase often heard in Albox from Spaniards is that they have "la basura del Inglaterra" living in their town.

If he came in my bar and said he didn't like people smoking he would be told to go elsewhere not only by the Spaniards but also by any other nationality. It all comes back to the same thing, smoking has been so much part of Spanish culture that it would be very hard to enforce the law. And one of the nice things about Spain is even if you break the law the penalty is not going to mean the end of the world.

Filling in endless complaint forms in the complaints book will ultimately not achieve the law being enforced but someone finding a way to ban the person making the complaints from their bar or restaurant. In Spain it is often a case of who you know and not what you know. You imagine a scenario where because the owner of the restaurant happens to have a relative in the Guardia Civil your life becomes a nightmare when they stop you daily for any minor misdemeanor they can dream up
I believe Citymike is taking the pi55 :lol:
Ah! the full english!!

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Postby bob » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:52 pm

“Problem is that one must spend time with them to find out if...”

Meet people on neutral ground: someone else’s party, introductions around a table at the local cafe. A few well-placed questions or just sit back and listen. ‘Building a relationship takes time’, but meeting people is a quick study.

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Postby Retro P » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:58 pm

But seriously, We are moving steadily towards a European federationm where we are being told by our various nanny states what we can and can't do, I respect the rights of non smokers and smokers alike, what I don't get is why the bar owners themselves cannot be allowed to declare themselves smoking or non smoking, it's simple logic!
Ah! the full english!!

Campo Kenny

Postby Campo Kenny » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:30 pm

peteroldracer wrote:Problem is that one must spend time with them to find out if..... :?
As a rule I/we need no more than 10 minutes to make an informed guess at least.............and if in doubt bar them out. People who claim to have millions of friends always turn out to be the lonliest. If you have 3 couples you can genuinely invite for a barby and all be on the same wavelength with no false small talk you've cracked it IMHO.

Kenny

Edited to add, OH said I must say this is the sentiments of one miserable *beep*.

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ICCSL
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Smoking laws

Postby ICCSL » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:57 pm

Hey we shall have to stop agreeing or we will become the Katy and Tina show :wink:
We will have to have a row soon Katy :evil:
Tina

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Postby wendyakemp » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:55 pm

Part of the charm of the bars in Spain is the sudden sound of an English voice and the weighing up of the owner of said voice.
How many times have you struck a conversation to find they are complete weirdos and seem to turn up in every bar in town?
We thought we wer being stalked at one stage.
Don't forget 'Choice makes your friends, fate, your relatives ' :twisted:

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Postby hybridanglo » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:15 pm

Although this may be in danger of coming across as a rant, it's merely my opinion and isn't intended to besmirch the good name of any particular individual, so any ad hominems can be holstered for another day.
For all the anti-smoking brigade, who decry the habit for its cancer-bringing and asthma-provoking filth, I have several questions. Do you drive? Do you have friends who drive? Do you campaign as vocally for non-driving cities as you do for non-smoking bars?
Only asking, given that the incidence of asthma and lung cancer has increased exponentially with car usage. At a time when, conversely, the number of smokers is declining. And that, while smoking can harm the individual partaking - the risk of passive smoking has been greatly exaggerated - the damage caused by car use is far more widespread.
As for the costs of treating smoking related illnesses, well, in 2005, the UK spent less than £2billion on treating smoking related disease. And raised more than £10billion from tobacco duty. So, it might be suggested that the much maligned smokers are subsidising the rest of the country's healthcare. Yet, health care trusts are now refusing treatment to smokers, despite the largesse of their tax donations.
And the government, buoyed by the tacit acceptance of the smoking ban are not only planning on extending this to include all areas other than the home as per California (a trial has been touted for Barnsley), but also that smokers will have to apply for a £10 p.a. "Smokers Permit" to allow them to purchase cigarettes.
Now, I realise that much of this will receive little in the way of sympathy from the non-smoking fraternity, but I'll try and make it plain. It's not just about smoking. It's about civil liberties. Once they've finished with the smokers, who'll be next? The drinkers? Probably. Or maybe the "fatties"? After all, it is believed that 2007 was the first year that the cost of treatment of obesity-related illness exceeded that of smoking-related illness. Watch out for your 80% cream cake tax.

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Postby alaninspain » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:25 pm

I'm with Kenny on his attitude to his personal smoking habit. He can smoke when he wants, it causes no legal problems, nor inflicts smoke on others or in places where it is forbidden. Surely, that is only common sense. I gave up over 30 years ago, when smoking 60 Capstan Full a day,
only because I realised it was controlling me rather than the other way round. I put on weight, as most do because your taste buds recover and you eat more and enjoy it. That is unhealthy so I decided to get fitter, and after 6 months even started playing football again. Still rubbish but I did get boot money though.
The other comment was on the swimming pool rules. Most are sensible such as not taking any glass containers down to the pool. Bare feet and broken glass slivers do not mix. However, not all of the rules are specific enough. We have one stating that no dogs are allowed in the pool and garden area. It does not actually say animals are banned. I have a picture of a nomadic Arab leading a camel train through the garden without anyone able to complain. Perhaps I'll borrow a camel and try it out for a laugh.
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Postby karandjon » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:18 pm

hybridanglo wrote:For all the anti-smoking brigade, who decry the habit for its ..asthma-provoking filth, I have several questions. Do you drive? Do you have friends who drive? Do you campaign as vocally for non-driving cities as you do for non-smoking bars?
Only asking, given that the incidence of asthma and lung cancer has increased exponentially with car usage.

In defense of asthmatics I can categorically say that car-fumes do not bring on an asthma attack whereas cigarette smokey air does! Simple!

Me? If i go in a bar and its smokey and dont want to stay..then i leave.
If i go in a bar and i feel comfortable..then i stay.
If i go in a restaurant and dont like the menu...i leave
If i go in a restaurant and like the look of the menu..i´ll stay.
It is all a simple matter of CHOICE. Each and every one of us is different so why you all above cant accept this as a fact of life and get on with it, is beyond me! :lol:
vino, sol y aire, y seras rico como nadie

Campo Kenny

Postby Campo Kenny » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:34 pm

Well as for which is the most poisonous, I don't hear of many people sticking a hose pipe in though the car window and asking a mate to puff a few gobfulls of L+M Azul down it for them to end it all............exhaust fumes do the trick quicker :?

Kenny

Off the weed again 8)

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ICCSL
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Smoking laws

Postby ICCSL » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:05 pm

We get so many research results thrown at us where certain things are good for you, then they are bad and then maybe they are good for you again. Have a look at the following:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_eff ... of_smoking

Having read this it seems I am unlikely to get Parkinson's disease, Alzheimers, ulcerative colitis or acne. Shame about the Alzheimers because that might make me forget that I am a smoker.
Tina

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Postby hybridanglo » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:34 pm

karandjon wrote:In defense of asthmatics I can categorically say that car-fumes do not bring on an asthma attack whereas cigarette smokey air does! Simple!
Is that just in your experience, or do you speak for all asthmatics now? Sorry, I must have missed the coronation.

This online reference (among many, go on, Google it) would appear to contradict your beliefs:

http://www.onlineasthmahelp.com/asthma- ... tion-time/

"Car exhaust is a potent cause of oxidative stress known to trigger asthma."

While this report, based on a survey of Nottingham children, suggests car exhaust fumes are a primary cause of asthmatic symptoms:

http://preventdisease.com/news/articles ... thma.shtml

"In the study, investigators found that children aged 4 to 16 who lived within 150 meters (about 450 feet) of a heavily trafficked street were more likely to develop a wheezing illness than their peers who did not live in such close proximity to a busy road.
The risk increased by 8% among primary schoolchildren and 16% among secondary schoolchildren with each 30-meter (90-foot) increment closer the home was to the street."

Probably why, in my asthmatic brother's case, he finds it easier to be around smokers than walking alongside a busy road. I will tell him he's off message, though.

But then, for some people, smoking is the ultimate evil. Logic and proportion don't even enter the equation.


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