grants and corruption

[metalmonkey]

hi anyone know anyone who has successfully applied for a grant for tourism in Andalucia?

Ta

[Retro P]

Sorry, I didn't get the corruption bit!

[maddy]

metalmonley didnt need you to specifically get that bit, he asked if anyone knew anyone who had successfully applied for a grant in andalucia

iwwi people think i am an alias of you too? xxx

in answer to your question metalmonkey, no, i dont know of anyone who has successfully applied, and been given a grant. Good luck with your search.

[geegee]

The Consejeria de Turismo is the only government body I have dealt with where the officer dealing with our case demanded a bribe. Our grant application was not succesful despite meeting all the criteria and more. A friend running a small rural hotel in Ronda got her grant eventually - after 3 years of fighting - but said 'never again' - the time, energy and money spent chasing it exceeded the benefit of the grant when it finally materialised. The criteria you have to meet and the paperwork are so excessive, and they can demand the money back at any time for the slightest percieved infraction, that she warned me against even trying.

[Trooperman]

Interesting. That begs the question: just where does the money go?

[metalmonkey]

hi

our experience is much the same, met all the criteria and more was told not to pay any bills until we heard if we officially met the criteria, this was back in January but now not impossible as the build is well underway, have now been told that they've changed the criteria! a friend in the 'know' has told us that many grants are 'fixed' (lets use the correct phrase) usually what happens is a friend of a politican wants a grant so politician makes some crietria up for one, others apply so politician can say that it has been fair and friend gets grant. Where we live the most enormous house otherwise known as the birthday cake has been built with a 5 a side football pitch ...hence permissions as it's for tourism!!!! but is actually owned by local Mayor ....now said house has had a telephone mast erected behind it...when no one else can get a line BUT you know what

all this makes me more determined and I am gonna act like a Mountie and get my man!! in other words I am going to make like a dog with a bone and I am going to pursue it as far a possible. A friend wrote to the King as he's been trying to get a pone line for a very long time..guess what?? in a couple of weeks he had a call to say that one was being installed, guess the moral is write to the King!!

Will keep you posted

[frog]

crikey,now you have me interested,forget the grant bit,i applied for that 10 years ago,got refused,but the phone line...

i live in fuengirola,me and my spanish neighbours cant get a phone line,are you saying if we write to the king we might get one,whats his address

can i write rey juan carlos
madrid
hey what do i know,maybe i should write to the shoe guy

[metalmonkey]

At this point we are trying everything so a letter to King sounds like a good idea

[geegee]

Well good luck Metalmonkey, hope your tenaciousness pays off. What you were told chimes with what we heard too - turns out our project manager had a friend in turismo (the boss of the guy who tried to get a bribe out of us, who when he realised the connection went very quiet... ) who basically told him our chances were slim as there was no money for our type of project - it was supposed to be a grant for new tourism initiatives with those that met the brand new environmental sustainability criteria getting special consideration - ours was the only project in our province that did so it should have been in the bag. However we were told the cash was in reality allocated to those with existing connections/tourism projects, the opposite to what the published policy said!

[metalmonkey]

same with us...applied for grant for encouraging tourism for disabled people, we are building a totally accessible casa rural with adapted bathrooms, hoists etc etc think I will write to the king about this as well ...while I'm on a roll

[flan_taster]

Can anyone advise? A friend is interested (loosely) in looking at a project to run a rural hotel that has already had plans drawn and apparently agreed. She is wondering if the planning people would kick up any fuss if she took over the papers and continued with the project. In other words - are the project plans transferable from the original owner to a new one? Or would it be necessary to start the entire procedure again in her name ?

[Retro P]

metalmonley didnt need you to specifically get that bit, he asked if anyone knew anyone who had successfully applied for a grant in andalucia

iwwi people think i am an alias of you too? xxx

in answer to your question metalmonkey, no, i dont know of anyone who has successfully applied, and been given a grant. Good luck with your search.

metalmonley"?? try to keep up!!

[geegee]

Hmm, 'apparently agreed' plans Flantaster - I would tell your friend to tread carefully. You say 'run', do you mean purchase the land and its plans??? If so we are in the same situation at present but boot on the other foot - we have a project for a rural hotel that we cannot proceed with at present due to the current financial climate and have considered trying to sell it. If she is a cash buyer, great, if relying on a mortgage, tricky!

In answer to your question as to are the plans transferable - our project has permissions in a company name, which we set up purely to do our project. The land in owned by the company and it has paid for all the planning reports, architects plans, Junta consents etc., so in theory we could legally sell the ready-made company and all its assets, land, buildings, planning permissions etc. - the Director's names would change and therefore the new owners/directors should not have any difficulties as the permissions are in the name of the company they now own. In saying all that, the transfer would not be simple so a good lawyer is essential for both parties. We have also held back from paying the building licence and other development taxes to the Ayuntamiento until we know we are definitely proceeding, so any fair and proper sale would have to be conditional on the new owners receiving the licence and the price would have to reflect the fact that they would need to pay for the licence as well.

If the permissions are to an individual I don't know - any potential purchaser would have to take professional legal advice however the project is structured and also speak to and get some sort of written undertaking if possible from the Ayuntamiento's lawyers/mayor etc. Using our project for a rural hotel in suelo non urbanizable land as an example, this is what we have/needed:

A Proyecto de Actuación with architectural execution project with architectual college visado; full engineering/infrastructure plans (power and water supply, proposed sewage and potable water treatment if not on town water, permsision to sink a sondeo (technical minas study) to extract water if required, layout plans and specs showing all this); all approved by the Ayuntamiento then subject to a subsequent favorable report from the Junta de Andalucia consejeria de obras dept; advertised in the BOP and on the Ayuntamiento notice board, neighbours informed to allow for objections; medioambiente-cross consejeria committee-approved environmental impact study also published/objections considered on environmental grounds, including fire risks and prevention plan (risk to the building/guests of firesand risk from the buildings/guests to the countryside); separate approval from agencia de agua if it is within 100m of a water course; provisional inscription from consejeria de turismo for desired category; finally - final approval from Ayuntamiento. Only then are you ready to ask for the building licence, pay the taxes and start construction. Only once you have building licence in hand are you safe. At least until built and then you need to get your occupation licence, final inscription for tourism, etc etc.

Every case and every province/ayuntamiento is different, we are on proteccion integral-categorized land so the most exacting in planning and environmental terms. Buyer beware is all I can say, even if the project has paid for and recieved a building licence from the Ayuntamiento this does not make it legal, it still needs junta approval if its a rural hotel and as you can see from the above, this process is not necessarily straightforward!!!

Hope that helps.