College of Architects?

[Zofia]

Anyone had any dealings with the College of Architects (in Granada I think)? do they always take so long to 'stamp' a plan? And can you complain to them about your architect?

We still are no nearer getting our reform licence through a combination of architect ignoring us and taking forever to do anything, and the College of Architects taking forever to stamp our plans. Bearing in mind we had asked for the -plans a year ago, and the final ones were only sent to the Ayuntamiento in September that's pretty long. The Ayuntamiento, after telling us verbally that the plans would be passed with an extesion to the footprint, then rejected them saying they had to be to the original footprint only initially, and the extension would have to be applied for separately (again tellling us there would be no problem with getting the permission - more money for them I suppose...). So the revised plans have had to go back to the CoA to be 'stamped' again, and it's anyone's guess how long it will take.

We have had a builder on standby since March (and paid his deposit back in June), and all this is costing us in storage (where most of our furniture is), as well as having to install a woodburner in current house to get us through winter...we had hoped to be in the new house by Christmas. Maybe christmas 2010, the way things are going.

All this if due really to the architect basically just fobbing us off, ignoring us and lying to us (he said the plans had been sent to the town hall in May, a blatant lie, as it then transpired that he had to send them to the CoA to be stamped, which he hadn't- and surely as an architect he should know the procedure).

I just wondered if this was standard procedure. What do people do who don't use an architect?

[Beachcomber]

I have had no dealings with the Granada College of Architects but in Málaga they only take a week or two to pass plans that are in order.

Unfortunately there is no alternative to using an architect (unless you build illegally) but in my experience the College of Architects are far more strict with their members than the College of Abogados.

Are you sure you are dealing directly with an architect. Sometimes the plans will be drawn up by a 'delineante' (draughtsman) who will pass them on to a registered architect to put his name to them and arrange for their endorsement by the college.

I'm sure Hillybilly will be able to give you more information.

[hillybilly]

Not really, I've had no dealings with the College in Granada either but as Beach says you have no option but to use an Architect who is a member of the College in your province.
There is the means with the Granada College to make submissions telematically which is supposed to speed up the process but I understand that all Colleges advise that it can take up to 90 days for the visado, that's assuming everything is in order.
It does sound as if your Architect has stuffed up somewhere along the line (as Beach says, check that they are an Architect as opposed to a Technical Architect or Aparejedor) and yes, you can complain to their college.
As with anything bureaucratic in Spain I can only advise that you keep hassling, both your Architect and whoever is dealing with your project at the College itself.
p.s. why have you paid your builder a deposit up front?!

[Zofia]

We've paid the builder a deposit because at the the time the architect told us that everything would be sorted within a month. The builder gave us a good quote, and to 'retain' him we had to pay a deposit (also so he could get materials etc, as I said, at the time we were all led to believe that it was imminent).

I think we are dealing with another architect too, as the plans (massive 'book') that went to the CoA had another architect's name plastered all over it (the techinical architect?). But the one we have contact with is definitely an architect with his own practice.

Anyway, let's hope things get moving soon....thanks for advice and help.

[geegee]

To add to what Hilly says, it does sound as if you may not dealing directly with the 'real' Architect - i.e the architect who has signed off you 'massive book' (or Proyecto de Ejucuccion) of plans??? He is responsible for the accuracy of the plans, their compliance with the law, obtaining the stamp (visado), the direction of the building work and basically indemnifying that your building is designed properly and won't fall down or develop major faults. You should have a written contract with this person and this contract should be registered with the Colegio as well to ensure you are covered by the colegios insurance scheme - this is the person you need to be chasing up.

The 'Aparejador 'or 'technical architect', on the other hand, collaborates to provide technical and structural detailing, must be named in the proyecto plans and also has to be a registered member of the separate aparejador's college. The Aparejador is an important and necessary professional but, legally speaking, is secondary in importance to the Architect, as its only the Architect who can sign off the plans and take responsibility for everything in them.

Sometimes one Architect will sign off plans of another Architect because Architect No. 2 knows the planning department better or is registered in the right province etc , but you are in very murky waters here as you have no contact (and probably no contract or colegio protection) with the so-called professional who is in theory legally responsible for your building and the one you are dealing with day-to-day , who actually drew up the plans, has no incentive to get them right because he is not legally responsible .

Sorry if this is long winded and I hope I have not confused you further !

[JAKE M]

Zofia, not the answer you want but the process for our reform took one year to be passed. The architects wer reasonably quick but the college of architects at Malaga and our local ayuntamiento kept passing the plans back and forth . I think both bodies were afraid to commit and say yes to the plans given all the hassle of building regs changing etc.

[Beachcomber]

My building licence took over a year and at that time there was no requirement for the plans to be approved by the College of Architects. It did, however, pass through the hands and various in-boxes of the dreaded Junta for endorsement which is where, I am reliably informed, the delay took place.

[JAKE M]

It did, however, pass through the hands and various in-boxes of the dreaded Junta for endorsement which is where, I am reliably informed, the delay took place.

Isn't Spanish beaurocracy wonderful? However when the plans eventuallyget passed, it is such a wonderful experience that one hurdle has been cleared....then the builders move in

[Zofia]

It is now over a year since we first started the process.....

It's just annoying that the Ayuntamiento led us to believe they would pass the original plans (our architect talked to the Town Hall architect several times - at least he said he did), and then didn't. It's a very simple reform, nothing contentious at all, basically reforming what is practically a ruin to it's former 'glory'. We had just added a porch and a boiler room (which we will now have to reapply for).

The project manager has spoken to the town hall architect recently too, and he has said that the revised plans will be passed at the next meeting (they have them every Monday) for sure. So we really are just waiting the the (very slightly) revised plans to be stamped by the damned CoA....

[Zofia]

Well. got an email today to say the the plans have been stamped, picked up from Granada and duly taken to the town hall in time for Monday's planning meeting. hurrah!!! building work can start straight away.....

Followed by second email to say that the mayor is most likely away next week, so no planning meeting. Don't these people have deputies?

Excuse me while I scream - AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beachcomber]

I have always found that all functionaries have their own function and do not do other people's jobs when they are absent!

[JAKE M]

During our year long wait, we got to your stage Zofia and were told " at the next meeting",
and when I asked when that would be, we were told "the next time they meet"

[Beachcomber]

Logical, I suppose!