Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

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Zofia
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Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby Zofia » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:50 pm

As I've probably mentioned, we are reforming a house near Montefrio, in the campo. It is to include a pool (of course!) and a tennis court. We have the licence for the building work for the house and annexe, but didn't at the time apply for the pool or court, being told it was merely a formality which could be added later. Our architect (and several other 'experts', including the Town Hall architect) said neither would be a problem, and that a court didn't even need permission. The house is almost finished. Today the architect said that we are not allowed to build a pool yet. Apparently, pools are not allowed in 'rural' properties.....however, he says once we get our Licence of First Occupation (or whatever it's called), the house is then classified as 'urban' and a pool will be allowed. This is the first time I've heard of this...Does anyone know if this is the case? I'm now worried that we won't be allowed a pool (in which case we won't want the house, couldn't live without a pool!).

Any nuggets of wisdom here? I appreciate that different regions probably have their own laws.

Z
Finally really and properly living in Andalucia.

pete_l
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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby pete_l » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:28 pm

(I'm assuming here that the pool & tennis court were on the original plans that the architect drew up, and that they know the status of the land as being rural).

I'm not an expert in this, but it does sound like your architect either doesn't know what he/she is talking about. or they're cynically messing you around. In your position I'd withhold a large proportion of the architect's fee until the house is completed and you have everything legalised.

El Cid
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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby El Cid » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:40 pm

We built a house on rustic land and the pool was built as a water deposito which could be used for recreational purposes - ie. a swimming pool.

Sid

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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby Jool » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:37 pm

Just building a house and getting an LFO does not change the status of the land, but Sid is correct, of course, apply for permission for an irrigation deposit or something similar, whatever the word is that gets you planning permission for what is really a swimming pool in your area, you cannot use swimming pool though!!! It could be deposito, alberque, water deposito, anything rather than a simple description of what it actually is.....

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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby julian » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:44 am

Sid, did your permission state "water deposito which could be used for recreational purposes" or just "water deposit" ?

El Cid
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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby El Cid » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:59 am

It says " A second open deposito which has double use for the accumulation of water and recreational use".

We also have a closed deposito which supplies water for the house and irrigation.

Sid

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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby julian » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:05 am

that´s quoted from the permission to build it?or from what the architect worded it as later to put it into the escritura?

El Cid
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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby El Cid » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:56 am

The building licence does not give any details of the project apart from the fact that it is for a house. It gives permission to build as per the project submitted with the application.

The wording I gave you (translated of course), is from the Projecto submitted. The escritura does not mention either deposito as they are not part of the house as such.

Sid

julian
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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby julian » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:18 pm

"apply for permission for an irrigation deposit or something similar, whatever the word is that gets you planning permission for what is really a swimming pool"

but isn´t this a classic case of advice to the brits here to bend the rules in full knowledge that they are building a swimming pool without permission for a pool, and then years later crying when the junta says they have an illegal pool, this is similar to all those houses here that have been built with permission for something different and then get knocked down later with the UK tv and press having a field day blaming the spanish authorities.
(where did that "having a field day" originate from??? :? )

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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby bob » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:03 pm

Idioms: field day

A time of great pleasure, activity, or opportunity, as in The press had a field day with this sensational murder trial. This colloquial expression, dating from the 1700s, originally referred to a day set aside for military maneuvers and exercises, and later was extended to a similar day for sports and games. Since the early 1800s it has been used more loosely.

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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby Jool » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:29 pm

Julian - yes, but its what the spanish do themselves too!! I have not heard of a pool declared illegal, they seem easier to keep hold of than a house, eg the Priors!!

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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby El Cid » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:26 pm

It happened to our neighbours who built a pool without a licence. Their house is one of many built as a "nave" on advice from the estate agents and of course is illegal if used as a house.

They were inspected as part of a purge locally and had a demolition order issued. Another neighbour with a legal house built a pool at the same time with no licence but he was just fined.

Our "recreational deposito" passed with flying colours!

Sid

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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby julian » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:53 pm

I guess a sunken swimming pool crumbling to the ground when being demolished by a JCB is not spectacular enough for the UK tv !! doesn´t quite have the same effect !!

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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby Jool » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:10 pm

It happened to our neighbours who built a pool without a licence. Their house is one of many built as a "nave" on advice from the estate agents and of course is illegal if used as a house.

They were inspected as part of a purge locally and had a demolition order issued


surely the key thing about the pool demolition order is that the house was a nave?

It is so difficult to understand Spain.......I was at a govt. office today, had to get a ticket to queue for the desk but no one was waiting and no one else around other than man waiting to attend at desk. He said I had to get ticket, then sit down....when I pointed out there was no one at any counter he said, no sit down, as soon as I did he then called me to the counter immediately but would not attend to me unless I followed the procedure....... :roll: :roll: :roll: after that he was actually quite helpful........

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Re: Is this true, re swimming pools and planning permission?

Postby El Cid » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:40 pm

Jool wrote: surely the key thing about the pool demolition order is that the house was a nave?


That's true - a deposito would probably have been OK.

Round here you can build a nave with a licence but it cannot have any internal walls and you must actually be growing something.

These neighbours also received a "precintado" order which prevents them using it. Obviously they don't have a LFO. It was a Danish agent that conned them with the old "wait 4 years" story.

None of these orders have been enforced and they use it for a couple of weeks each year, so far with no problems.

Sid


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