Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

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Enrique
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Enrique » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:23 pm

Hi Yogibear,
Following your payment saga............just printing out the form and the payment gets take, guess we all wish it was that straight forward.

When I've in the past printed out multiple copies when "researching" ......Browser problems etc...............the only one that counted was the one taken to the Bank with a wedge of cash.

Back to now you should just be able to Import 2016 data (you did save it ?) and change the dates, and anything that changed from 2016 for 2017...............This will be the last time using this system as Beachcomber has pointed out from next year the system is all on-line.
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby angryminion » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:05 am

Hi all,

I was trying to complete my 210 earlier and am having no joy whatsoever with getting the AEAT site to recognise my certificate - it isn't even throwing up the window to choose the cert. It just give the really helpful -

Se ha producido un error:
403 Error de identificación. No se detecta certificado digital o no se ha seleccionado correctamente.
Puede contactar con el servicio de atención al contribuyente indicando el código de error 403.

Unfortunately all my apps have updated.. so I've got Windows 10 (1803), Chrome 70, IE 11 with all updates, Java 1.8.0_191. Annoyingly I'm sure it was working a few months ago, so clearly something somewhere has threw a massive great steaming spanner in the works.
I've even resorted to trying Firefox (got the latest, then after reading something of hope a dozen or so pages back I downloaded v48 but that's had no effect either. Just keep getting the 403 error. My certificate is still present in the Personal store, and I did import it into the Firefox store before trying the AEAT site. I've even been and verified the certificate is still valid and ok at the FNMT site and that says the certificate is fine.

Hoping someone can throw a few helpful pointers my way or at least say what works for them. Like I said, up until a few months ago this worked for me with both IE and Chrome (probably even Edge) - just get nowhere now.

Many thanks in advance.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:41 am

I have managed to avoid Windows 10 and have never had this problem so cannot help from personal experience but try following the advice here:

https://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.i ... orer.shtml

It looks as though you may have tried some of the suggestions but if all else fails try talking to AEAT IT on Skype. They are very helpful but, unless you are very lucky, you will need to speak to them in Spanish.

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Enrique
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Enrique » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:58 am

Hi angryminion,
You may have a Digital Certificate in your Browser but is it still valid........ :?:

accessing the Form 210 from Windows 10 1803 , Firefox 63.0.1, (N.B.my system does not have JAVA installed) using the link ....from the A.com FAQ

for "Use this version of the form for 2017 and previous if you have a digital certificate (electronic signature) and wish to pay through your bank account"

I've just done this.

There is no need to use out dated copies of the Browser as they where only relevant at the time of posting.

Clear your Browser Cache and Cookies, reboot your system, and try accessing Form 210 again.

Let us know how you get on.
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby angryminion » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:03 am

Thanks for your responses, both. The whole issue is embarassing as this is what I do for a living.. IT infrastructure and security *cough*. Thought I'd update you with my fix! :)

Anyways, I had a 'lightbulb' kinda moment when I was in the shower this morning and it sort-of relates to the last item on the troubleshooting page I'd been looking at (and which Beachcomber referenced) - disable the antivirus.

To be honest, when I saw this I didn't think it would be applicable, and certainly for my antivirus product (Bitdefender) it isn't that easy to turn the whole thing off. But the issue I have specifically was, as with most of these products now they don't just do av anymore, they've bundled all kinds of guff with it. The one that caught my eye was the 'Encrypted web scan' which is part of the Online Threat Prevention Module. This uses its own certificate to validate those of other websites, which explains why I wasn't even getting a pop-up box asking me to choose my cert - the site was never seeing it, only the Bitdefender one. Disabling this feature allowed the website to work as normal and the prompts came back for me to select my certificate. You can add exceptions in for certain sites, but for this I decided to leave it off. Once to bear in mind for any future encrypted sites that don't work as they should...

So in short, if anyone ever has the issue where they have a valid certificate but the AEAT site isn't even prompting you for it, check if your av product has anything for verifying encrypted web sites. That could very well be the issue.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:18 am

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you found the solution.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:12 am

I wish to reiterate the purpose of this thread. It is specifically for comments and queries in respect of the FAQ concerning the completion and submission of non-resident tax returns on form 210. (The clue is in the title)

It is most definitely not a medium for peddling the services of lawyers, gestors, fiscal advisors or other such people who will carry out the service for a fee and any posts attempting to promote such services will continue to be deleted.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby proview1122 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:35 pm

hi
I am trying to complete the first 210 form. I have some of it sorted but not others, long story short lawyer sent me a reminder with some figures re the tax and I can only work some out,
Mine is a very simple return I bought the house march 2017 in joint names with my wife. I realise that we must submit a return each but they will just mirror each other.

so I use the 2017 ibi bill divided by 365 times number of days we owned the house multiplied by 1.1 divided by 2 (joint names) multiplied by 0.19 the answer is each of our tax liability, or have i got this wrong!

Is there anywhere official that states divided by the number of owners as I cannot find anything and I want to be forearmed when confronting said solicitor,
regards
stewart

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Enrique
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Enrique » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:59 pm

Hi proview1122,
Ripped out of the Form 210 filling in Instructions.............

"If the building is owned by several natural persons, the income from the building or usufruct is considered obtained by each owner, proportional to their ownership share. "

https://www.agenciatributaria.es/static ... _en_gb.pdf

The FAQ has all the answers and you should be able to DIY.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=27897

You both need to be in the TAX system, also a Digital Signature will be useful to keep track of PAYMENTS and PAY online if needed.

:!: Be aware that your Solicitor will charge way more than the TAX to pay for his fees .. :!:
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby proview1122 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:10 pm

many thanks for the help / link thats exactly what I needed
cheers

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:18 pm

Just to reiterate Enrique's post see also:

https://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.i ... icas.shtml

and in particular paragraph 2. where it states:

Cuando un inmueble sea propiedad de un matrimonio o de varias personas, cada una de ellas es un contribuyente independiente, por lo que deberán presentar declaraciones separadas.

Remember that the instructions in Spanish take precedence over the automatic English translation although, in this case, they roughly correspond.

Also where you put 'times 1,1' that should be 'times 1,1%' or 'times 0,011' for example:

100.000 times 1,1 = 110.000

but

100.000 times 1,1% (or 0,011) = 1.100

Have you confirmed that the multiplier for your municipality is, in fact, 1,1% and not 2,0% depending on when the valor catastral was last revised?

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby proview1122 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:46 am

hi
the ibi bill states ano val 2018 and then ano rev 2005 so I guess its 2% :(

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Enrique
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Enrique » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:01 am

Hi,
From a post by Beachcomber.................

"You need to check with your town hall to find out when the valores catastrales were last subject to an official revision (as opposed to a simple increase). Box 4 will be 1,1% of the valor catastral if it has been revised during the past ten years and 2% otherwise."
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:29 pm

The 'año val 2018' refers to the year for which the IBI is being paid, ie 2018, and the 'año rev 2005' refers to the year of the last revision. So, yes, it is 2%.

You can double check here:

http://www.catastro.meh.es/esp/ponencia_valores.asp

Just enter the details as requested leaving 'Año ponencia' as 'Todos los años' then click on 'Consultar'

The year we are looking for is listed under 'Año efecto'

Marc1970
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Marc1970 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:30 pm

Hello,
My question is about Modelo 210 –tax from rental INCOME.
Recently I have found out that it is required to submit one model 210 for EACH tenant within a quarter! In the field “pagador/retenedor/emisor” the guest name is to be entered, and that goes for each guest and payment… In my case, this means 30-40 Modelos 210 per quarter, than spending days in bank…! Until now, I was submitting one model 210 with total amount earned in a quarter. I was generating one PDF of Modelo 210, had it printed, and paid by cash in my Spanish bank.
I am looking how to do this on-line and need your advice:

1. Option – Paying from my internet bank –
Doing this from my bank internet portal seems to be easy. Select the 210 model option, enter period (for example 4T-2018), enter anagrama, enter the amount and that’s it (no other data is required!), time savior! This however, does not comply with the rule “one Modelo 210 per guest”. Should I split the total amount earned and make dozen of partial payments? I guess this would not make much sense for Hacienda since there is no where to enter “pagador/retenedor/emisor” information. Please share your opinions.

2.Option – Using Digital Certificate –
For those that have it, please share, do you submit one separate modelo 210 for each guest within a quarter? Does the form looks the same like the one that is used for generating standard PDF-s of 210 model?

Did anyone ever have any issues for not submitting Modelo 210 for icome from each guest in a quarter but on the entire sum? This requirement makes total admin tax nightmare, especially for two joint owners.
Regards

Beachcomber
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:06 pm

It is really to soon to know if there will be any repercussions from only submitting one tax return in respect of each rental. Can I ask where your information comes from. It may well be that someone has already suffered some repercussions from not having completed individual returns.

The person in charge of the non-resident department at Málaga tax office insists that this should be the case, ie one tax return for each person renting and so do the call-centre operators on the AEAT helpline. Even some of his staff commented on how ridiculous this would be but he was adamant. If you take this to an extreme, if thirteen groups of ten people rented a large villa each for one week during a three month period this would result in 130 tax returns and if the property was jointly owned it would be 260 tax returns. If the returns are handled by a gestor at even only €50 per return that would be €13.000, probably not much less than the rental obtained for the entire period.

I cannot imagine that anyone declaring actual rental income complies with this rule but a rule it is and given that it is the undeclared intention of the government to stamp out all private holiday rentals this gives them the means to be able to do so as well as the requirement to register each rental with the Guardia Civil. The whole issue is so arbitrary and undefined which is why I do not try to cover it in the non-resident tax FAQ. It is also why I no longer rent out my own holiday apartment even though the procedure for a resident is somewhat less arduous.

proview1122
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby proview1122 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:44 pm

Many thanks for all the kind help and info, am all sorted now paying on monday :(
cheers

Keep up the good work :clap:

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Yogibear » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:11 pm

Hi Beachcomber,
I have had further info from my bank on this. They have supplied a copy of the 210 completed for 2016 & also a copy of an email I sent to them at the time to see if they could pay this on my behalf via online banking. I seem to have deleted this email & forgot that I had ever sent it! Huge apologies to you & everyone as this explains how the bank details were inserted, i.e. the bank did it!! Though they failed to reply to this email.
That said, I can see that on the return I completed I did not insert my NIE number on the back two pages.........I assume this will cause huge problems?
Bizarrely the bank have informed me they are unable to carry out the payment for 2017 return though they did it for 2016.
You did confirm that I could get friends to take the forms & the fee on my behalf to my bank to make payment. Do you know whether this has to be done my branch or can it be done at any branch?

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Enrique
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Enrique » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm

Hi Yogibear,

Some email systems have a Deleted Bin where a deleted email is held for 30 days before being deleted for ever. So your deleted email could be still restored.

You can pay at any bank, the only restriction some Banks have is a time that you can't pay Bills after,
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

Beachcomber
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:38 pm

The fact that you failed to write your NIE number should not cause a problem. It is the same número de justificante for all the pages and it seems the paper forms never go to the tax office anyway.

It can be paid in cash at virtually any bank. It does not have to be your own branch or even your bank but some banks are placing a restriction on this. I don't think Cajasur will do it, for example.

I don't think anyone other than yourself would be able to pay through your bank account and, anyway, it would probably have to be at your own branch. It would be best to give your friends the cash.


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