Leaving Andalucia....

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.
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Terry Tibbs
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby Terry Tibbs » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:29 pm

Congratulations Peter! I hope we will see a 'letter from Costa Calida' from time to time on here.

BENIDORM
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby BENIDORM » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:39 pm

WELCOME TO YOUR NEW HOME Mr.Mrs P.O.R

May we wish you many years of Contentment and Bliss ..!!

Best Wishes,

Mr.& Mrs.Benidorm :wave:

Miro
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby Miro » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:20 pm

Congrats, Peter. Glad all went smoothly.
Our "leaving Andalucia" (for the UK) is progressing at a snail's pace. Not that anything's going or gone wrong, just that we agreed with our buyer way back in November to complete in May - her choice, to avoid CGT since she turns 65 in May and so will be exempt on the gain she's making by downsizing her main residence. I just wish we could get a clear and definitive answer on our own CGT situation. (Or at least, decide how we're going to play it to minimise our liability) We've ticked off all the jobs on our "List Of Things To Do" that we can do so far and so are just counting down the time....
On the UK front, after having our offer on a house accepted, we were encouraged by the estate agent to get our survey done as quickly as possible so that the sellers could instruct their solicitor to draw up the contract. So we have had it done already, and now the sellers are dragging their heels, because they haven't found anywhere to move to yet! What concerns us is that we have had to start paying out (for the survey, initial payment to our solicitor to cover searches etc.) but the vendor is in no way committed financially or legally or obligated to proceed at all if they change their minds. Very strange system (or so it seems to us). We booked on the ferry in early June, and had hoped we'd be going pretty much straight to our new home, but we could instead be facing an indefinite stay with family (which nobody wants!)
Back to actually physically moving, we obtained three quotes. The first one didn't bother coming to see us and just sent his estimate based on what I told him over the phone; the second one broke three appointments before turning up a day early at half an hour's notice, and scribbled his quote on a piece of paper while he was here. He said he'd send a detailed written quote by e-mail, but that was over a week ago and so far nothing. We booked with the third one, who seemed very professional, came on time, answered all our questions etc. The three prices were actually quite close, but in the end it was an easy choice!
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Miro
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby Miro » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:15 pm

Not sure which thread to put this one, but it's sort of about our move away, so here will probably do.
This morning we've been to the Ministry of Pointless Paperwork. Our buyer was told by the notary that we (the sellers) have to present a certificate from the town hall to show that there are no debts on the IBI. Never had to before; the last paid receipt was always enough, since you almost certainly can't pay the latest year's IBI if you haven't paid the previous year. We have every year's receipts for the time we've owned the place, but never mind, we went to the town hall and were told that we could order (for collection Monday) a certificate for the years up to 2013 - cost €2, but for the years from 2013 to 2016 we had to go to the oficina de recaudación which is in another part of town. So we went there and were given (free of charge) copies of the receipts for those years - even though that's exactly what we have anyway. Pointless Paperwork. And of course, although 2017 IBI is for our account, we can't pay it yet even if we want to, because they don't issue the bills until October (we'll be long gone by then, hopefully)
The other documents we have from the Ministry of Pointless Paperwork are our fiscal residency certificates, which only prove that we filed a tax return last year (for 2015 income), which we could just as easily prove by presenting a copy of the tax return itself. We haven't filed for 2016 yet, and of course it's not possible for us to file for this current year until next year anyway - when we'll be non-residents. Pointless Paperwork.
We have up to date padrón certificates - just in case someone asks for these, although I have no idea what they prove. Pointless Paperwork.
We have the required Energy Efficiency Certificate, which shows that our 13 year old apartment is highly inefficient (due to having an electric water tank apparently, rather than a poisonous leaky old butane gas system) but of course, such information is highly unlikely to put any buyer off a property. Pointless Paperwork.

Are we happy to be leaving Andalucia? The way I feel right now, I'll just be happy to think I'm doing my bit to save the rain forests by leaving! :crazy:
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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Wicksey
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby Wicksey » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:05 pm

The energy certificate is equally useless in the UK. The house we bought was marked down as it said they 'presumed' there was no loft insulation. I queried this as there was insulation but under a boarded loft area. They said they they cannot do any 'investigation' work to see if there is insulation or not so they had to say that there wasn't. French certificate for termites involved a man going around the house occasionally pocking at a beam with a screwdriver :) The whole EPC thing is a waste of money I think.

Miro
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby Miro » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:58 pm

Wicksey wrote:The whole EPC thing is a waste of money I think.


Totally agree, and I'm guessing an EU invention. Maybe the one good thing about Brexit someone was asking for on the *beep* thread :lol:
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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Miro
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby Miro » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:06 pm

Miro wrote:we went to the town hall and were told that we could order (for collection Monday) a certificate (for IBI) for the years up to 2013


We went back on Monday, to be told it wasn't ready, and to return on Wednesday.
We went back today, to be told by the same woman her served us last Thursday that she couldn't find our certificate (although she knew it had been done) and the person responsible for issuing it was in a meeting. Could we come back at the "última hora" in a few hours time? I saw red and said "NO". :twisted: As politely as possible, I explained that I was not moving from the seat until I had this utterly pointless piece of paperwork in my hands. As soon as I said it I realised that there was a very good chance I'd just made things 100 times worse - but to my pleasant surprise, it actually worked! It only took three people half an hour of faffing around, nervous glances, whispered conversations, furious keyboard thumping etc. etc., and hey presto - I had our piece of Pointless Paperwork and left.
TICK!

Also went to our administrator afterwards to get the certificate to show our community fees have been paid up to date. My fault entirely, because although he asked me in his office which garage number is mine, and I told him, only when I got home and looked at the certificate did I see he'd put a completely different number down. So another trip back there looms....

One day we'll look back on all this and laugh (maybe), but right now it's just driving me nuts.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

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concorde
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby concorde » Thu May 04, 2017 3:31 pm

Miro, take a deep breath and keep telling yourself " and this too shall pass"

I've been doing exactly that since December, but am still deep breathing, and muttering the above!

Miro
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby Miro » Thu May 04, 2017 3:41 pm

Apologies to anyone who's trying to follow our progress, as it's dotted around various topical threads.

Just to recap, we agreed with our buyer way back in November to complete in May, at her request, so that she would avoid CGT since she turns 65 in May and so will be exempt on the gain she's making by downsizing her main residence.
So, at the notary today to set up an appointment for signing, there was an alarming moment when the notary was telling her everything she has to pay, including the 8% transmission tax on the sale price. She said that she thought she was exempt, because she's over 65!! When he told her there was no exemption for over 65s, I genuinely thought she was going to burst into tears, and feared the sale may fall through because she couldn't afford another 12 grand or so that she hasn't budgeted for. WTF? She's Spanish, how could she not know about transmission tax? Of course, being Spanish, she's presumably been advised by "expert" mates not to bother with a lawyer (and there's no estate agent involved) so it's hard to feel sorry for her. But the confusing thing is, she asked us just before going in to the notary's office (although not for the first time) if we wouldn't mind under-declaring the sale price. We told her there was no advantage to us in doing so (as we're exempt from CGT either way), but understanding she'd save on transmission tax, and because she'd just admitted that she would pay the plus valia (see separate thread on that! viewtopic.php?f=41&t=37149&p=368509#p368509), we agreed to exclude from the sale the 10% deposit she's already given us in cash. But since she apparently didn't know about transmission tax until the notary told her, I now can't figure out how she thought she'd benefit by under-declaring. I can only assume the same "expert" mate had told her she should pay some black money.
What surprised me most of all, however, was when we were sat in front of the notary, he asked what the sale price was (we told him the true amount less 10%) and he then looked at us both and asked how much we wanted to declare! So, nobody can tell me that black money, or indeed dishonesty & corruption at all levels, are a thing of the past!
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

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patricia
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby patricia » Fri May 05, 2017 12:20 pm

On every level Miro :thumbdown:
Torrox Costa "El mejor clima de Europa"

anyroads
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby anyroads » Fri May 05, 2017 1:45 pm

"dishonesty & corruption" ???

Of course not. What you are talking about are "Old Spanish customs" !


anyroads

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patricia
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby patricia » Fri May 05, 2017 2:10 pm

Indeed :wink:
Torrox Costa "El mejor clima de Europa"

markwilding
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby markwilding » Fri May 05, 2017 3:22 pm

It was the vendors who wanted us to under declare when we bought. Her problem will be if she decides in a short time that the house isn't for her after all and unless the next buyer agrees to the same, she will lose out because she will be liable to higher capatial gains

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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby AkoAko » Fri May 05, 2017 3:58 pm

Under declaring doesn't necessarily create a larger Capital Gains bill when the time comes to sell . If the vendor is resident and 65 or over then their exempt , theres also the roll over exemption similar to business in the UK , as long as the PROFIT , ie if you sell for 200k and have a paper profit of 50k on the sale and its the main home , if the 50k is re invested in another Main home then again theres no CGT to be paid . the buyer will also .have saved on the tax when they purchased .

CGT is charged on the net profit , so all expenses involved with both the purchase and sale including your estate agents fee , notary , Lawyer all go against the gain . Any work you have done to improve the value of the property can also be used t reduce the bill although everything has to be supported with paperwork , invoices etc .

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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby Miro » Fri May 05, 2017 3:59 pm

Well, if she sells again soon, she probably won't make much of a gain, and the 10% black money for the purchase will be compensated for by all her (considerable) taxes and fees for purchasing and selling, which she'll be able to deduct. If she keeps it, what, 3 years? she'll be exempt again selling her main home, as long as she reinvests again in another place (AkoAko, I think you have to have lived there 3 years to get the exemption - and you have to reinvest all the sale proceeds, not just the profit). Anyway, I think it's unlikely she'll sell - she already has plans for ripping the place apart and reforming it - even though it's only 13 years old, 1 careful owner from new and immaculate :crazy:
I've realised since yesterday that she did know about transmission tax - she just thought she was exempt because she's over 65. Doesn't make her any less daft or ill-informed though, and still doesn't explain what advantage she thought she'd get by under-declaring :? I think she's just addled; she kept mentioning something about hipotecas. She's not buying with a mortgage, we don't have one, but when I asked her to calm down and explain, she just said the notary would explain it better as she doesn't really understand. When we were sat with the notary, she never mentioned it again, we didn't bring it up, and the notary only asked if we had one. Other than that, there was no mention of mortgages, and I still have no idea what she was going on about.
We have all heard about Brits and other foreigners who leave their brain on the plane when arriving in Spain, and stumble into property nightmares as a result, but this lady didn't arrive by plane, she was born and bred here. Kind of vindicates all those slandered expats, doesn't it? :lol:
Last edited by Miro on Fri May 05, 2017 4:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

Miro
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby Miro » Sat May 27, 2017 10:35 am

Sale went through without a hitch just over a week ago. Everything is coming together nicely, and we're due to finally be Leaving Andalucia in just over a week from now. :wave:
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

olive
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby olive » Sat May 27, 2017 10:45 am

Do you get a free cheap suit and £50 ?

Seriously though. What a saga. Hope your new life pans out well. :thumbup:

Miro
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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby Miro » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:09 pm

Officially left Andalucía today, and will be in Bilbao tomorrow, UK on Thursday.
I would like to thank all the members on A.com who have helped with various requests for info & advice etc., and for the general chat over the years. Without this forum, our lives in Andalucía would have been significantly harder, and probably less entertaining as well!
Best wishes to everyone. :wave:
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby BENIDORM » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:22 pm

Miro.....Bon Voyage !!!!! & Good Luck

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Re: Leaving Andalucia....

Postby chrissiehope » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:32 pm

Enjoy your new life :-)
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