Solar energy charge

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yesSi
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Solar energy charge

Postby yesSi » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:31 pm

Hello All

Another Newby here. I have searched through previous posts and haven't been able to find an answer but I read on another site that the Gov't are going to charge households for using solar energy if the decision isn't reversed by April '17 and that a meter needs to be installed and the charges are quite high. This appears to be a subject that has rumbled on for quite some time but I wondered if anyone knew more about it.

Thanks

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Flexo
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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby Flexo » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:15 pm

It is only if you have both solar power and grid power you will be charged. They say they will repeal it but I haven't gotten any info about it yet. Theoretically there should be a way around the tax by only allowing grid power in one direction (not putting power back on the grid) but I guess that was too complicated for the lawmakers.

TorreDelAguila
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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby TorreDelAguila » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:06 am

Are we talking UK or Spain on this one?
SFAIK, most new smart meters are capable of 'reverse' current flow, and of logging it.
Chris

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Flexo
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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby Flexo » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:03 pm

Spain of course... the problem is that it doesn't seem to matter if you push energy back or not, you will be charged the tax anyhow.

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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby TorreDelAguila » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:52 pm

'Of course'? How were we supposed to know? Your location and post don't specify.
Chris

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Flexo
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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby Flexo » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:41 am

I thought the forums were called "Andalucia".

TorreDelAguila
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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby TorreDelAguila » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:39 am

As you'll see, lots of the posts here relate to issues not only is various regions of Spain, but also to other countries. Sometimes it's difficult to guess where the issue lies - the most frustrating being "Where can I buy xyz?". At least you listed your locations, which not everyone manages to do.

I wasn't having a go, honestly - especially with just your 3rd post! Just left a bit uncertain.
Chris

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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby Unicorn » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:54 pm

Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but I seem to recall that there was a time when solar was being encouraged and now heinous taxes are being threatened.

It reminds me of when foreigners were being encouraged to buy properties and rent them out to pay the costs at a time when the market was really slumping. Now the list of requirements in rental properties can make holiday rentals out of the question courtesy of the hotel industry lobbying willing politicians. It will be the restaurants and other local amenities next, complaining that hotel guests are using hotel facilities and they are losing out.

What a merry-go-round!

Down here the wind changes direction very fast but I thing Spanish authorities have the edge!

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Flexo
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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby Flexo » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:59 pm

The solar tax is retarded but it isn't as stupid as people think it is because there is a logic behind it. The solar charge is supposed to be earmarked for upgrading the grid (which is built for one way distribution of electricity from the power plants to the consumer, often paid by the electric companies even though the consumer pays a fee for using it). When thousands of tiny solar producers shift load and charge back and forth the grid will be stressed out as it isn't designed for it. Upgrading the spanish grid to a modern smart standard is very expensive and it is therefore logical that people that will put extra force on the grid pay for it. But this is obviously the wrong way to do it.

TorreDelAguila
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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby TorreDelAguila » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:16 am

Sorry, but this is nonsense.

It would take almost every consumer of electricity to generate more electricity than they consume for the power grid to become overloaded. Home and local solar generation actually reduces the power being drawn from the regional and national grid, not adds to it.

Secondly, there is absolutely no need to raise a tax to pay for grid modernisation and upgrades. Endesa makes vast profits, on the back of some of the most expensive electricity in Europe, and a profit-focussed approach to its customers. They should just be told to get on with it, or pack up and go home, if they think there's no money in it. Don't be fooled.
Chris

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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby ashtondav » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:32 pm

No One has yet provided any details. If i want to use solar for daytime electricity needs what is the specific tax rate or charge levied on my bill?

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Flexo
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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby Flexo » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:22 pm

TorreDelAguila wrote:Sorry, but this is nonsense.

It would take almost every consumer of electricity to generate more electricity than they consume for the power grid to become overloaded. Home and local solar generation actually reduces the power being drawn from the regional and national grid, not adds to it.

Secondly, there is absolutely no need to raise a tax to pay for grid modernisation and upgrades. Endesa makes vast profits, on the back of some of the most expensive electricity in Europe, and a profit-focussed approach to its customers. They should just be told to get on with it, or pack up and go home, if they think there's no money in it. Don't be fooled.


It has nothing to do with overloading the grid, it has to do with the Electrical substations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_substation

The spanish grid is designed for one direction flow of energy, not multitasking between back and forth. In central and northern Europe this is not a big issue because the grid is more modern there.

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Flexo
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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby Flexo » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:35 pm

ashtondav wrote:No One has yet provided any details. If i want to use solar for daytime electricity needs what is the specific tax rate or charge levied on my bill?


I don't remember but if the solar charge is not repealed it will take more than 30 years for the investment to pay off (and the panels will only last for about 15-20 years if they don't get wasted in a hail storm). However, the panels are getting cheaper by the year (they are supposedly less than half the cost by the 3rd quarter this year than they were when they sealed the solar tax).

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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby TorreDelAguila » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:38 pm

If a consumer is capable of generating electricity, at the correctly regulated frequency and voltage, synchronised with the incoming mains, it can be fed back into the local network, sub-station transformers (which are bi-directional) and beyond, thereby reducing the need for centrally generated power-station output.

In the event of a power outage of the consumer's incoming main, his own power 'generator' would/must be automatically disconnected from the outside world, to prevent (a) possible electrocution of workers on the system, and (b) swamping of his own 'generator' by the local properties/installations.
Chris

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Flexo
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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby Flexo » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:07 pm

TorreDelAguila wrote:If a consumer is capable of generating electricity, at the correctly regulated frequency and voltage, synchronised with the incoming mains, it can be fed back into the local network, sub-station transformers (which are bi-directional) and beyond, thereby reducing the need for centrally generated power-station output.


It isn't exactly as simple. There is a total need of electricity that has to be generated. A producer has to decide in advance how much they are going to produce and if they aren't fullfilling that they will be fined (heavily) because it takes a lot of time to start up a backup coal generator. That is probably why Torresol is shut down half a year.

One of the key provisions with the solar tax is that small producers won't get paid for anything they produce to the grid.

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Re: Solar energy charge

Postby TorreDelAguila » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:19 am

:crazy:
Chris


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