Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.
User avatar
fyfin
Resident
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Turre Almeria

Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby fyfin » Tue May 23, 2017 4:16 pm

I think I have made a huge mistake. I have used an accountant who has been very good at doing my Spanish tax return for the past 3 years and because my income has all been from annuities (apart from when we were renting out our UK house) I paid little or no tax. The company only charge €55 for doing the return so well worth it in my opinion.
Unfortunately the lady retired and someone else did my return this time, it was a bit different as I have started to receive the UK state pension although only for 5 months of the 2016 tax year.
I do a spreadsheet with all the detail including annuity income and the dates when they commenced etc. I even put the amount that should be shown on the tax return i.e. around 25% depending on age commenced drawing income.
I called in today and collected the return and as I was passing the bank on the way back, I called in and paid it.

It was only when I got home and thought about it I realised something was wrong as I had stopped receiving income from the house (sold previous year and everything sorted in last year's return) and the UK state pension income for the 5 months was about the same as my 50% of rental income, therefore, I should have paid little or no tax, as previous instead of over €2,000.

I now see an amount more or less equivalent to all my annuity income + state pension under "rendimientos de trabajo" whereas I think the annuities (reduced of course) should be under a different heading and only the UK State pension under this heading. I can't see anything under this heading on previous returns which makes me very suspicious that despite me explaining to the new person very carefully that these annuities were treated differently, she has treated the whole lot as pension income.

I wonder if someone could tell me which box the annuities should feature in as the layout this year is different although it might be because I think it was previously done online - whereas this time I think it was manual.

I only hope this doesn't open a can of worms- I think I'll be going somewhere else next time.
A man likes his wife to be just clever enough to appreciate his cleverness, and just stupid enough to admire it

elusive
Resident
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: frigiliana

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby elusive » Tue May 23, 2017 6:16 pm

You have made me check mine now! So what should annuities go under on previous filings

And also any rental income does that all go in the trabajo section with the state pension

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13463
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby El Cid » Tue May 23, 2017 6:58 pm

Annuities are considered to be savings income and should never be added to pension income which is taxed differently. Annuity income is heavily discounted (nearly 70%) so is very advantageous with regards to tax.

The net annuity income is entered into the box that says "Rentas vitalicias". Sadly, many Spanish gestors/accountants get this wrong and just lump it into a general income which gives a much higher tax bill.

You need to go back and insist that they change it to the correct box. If that fails (which it may well do as they will hate to admit they are wrong), make an appointment with the tax office and they will sort it out and change the tax return for you.

Sid

elusive
Resident
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: frigiliana

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby elusive » Tue May 23, 2017 7:19 pm

Does it say "Rentas vitalicias on the 2015 return as i cant see it at all

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13463
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby El Cid » Tue May 23, 2017 10:04 pm

Rentas Vitalicias (as described in the manual) are included in contratos de secura de vida in box 027.

That was in the 2015 declaration. I haven't looked at the current return yet.

Sid

User avatar
fyfin
Resident
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Turre Almeria

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby fyfin » Tue May 23, 2017 10:23 pm

There doesn't seem to be anything like that on the current return. I'm seriously considering cancelling the payment which I think you can do here in Spain. I will see if I get a response from the gestor tomorrow.
A man likes his wife to be just clever enough to appreciate his cleverness, and just stupid enough to admire it

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 6611
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby gerryh » Wed May 24, 2017 9:01 am

El Cid wrote:Rentas Vitalicias (as described in the manual) are included in contratos de secura de vida in box 027.

That was in the 2015 declaration. I haven't looked at the current return yet.

Sid

I don't have any property to rent out or a annuity income but a quick look suggests that pg6 ( Pagina 3(11) has the boxes you need including, as in the 2015 declaration, box 027.
Rendimientos procedentes de contratos de seguro de vida o invalidez y de operaciones de capitalización


I'm sure that when Cid has looked at it all he will confirm or otherwise.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

User avatar
fyfin
Resident
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Turre Almeria

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby fyfin » Wed May 24, 2017 9:45 am

Oh well, no way to cancel the payment and the gestor doesn't seem to want to talk to me. I will call instead. Even my wife's return is wrong as we split one of the annuities 50/50 and hers is all in one place as well. Weirdly there's a small figure of 4.56 euros in box 27 for both of us and I've no idea what that could be. very angry with myself as well for not checking. Maybe I'll do my own return next year.
A man likes his wife to be just clever enough to appreciate his cleverness, and just stupid enough to admire it

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 6611
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby gerryh » Wed May 24, 2017 10:09 am

I would suggest you make an appointment at your local tax office.
They will sit down with you at a PC and go through, and hopefully, correct any errors.
When they have finished ask for a printed copy of the declarations and use them to do your own tax returns next year.
I do my own, simple, tax returns as I previously used a gestor .
Her advice and form filling cost me a €4000+ fine from the tax office.
It was reduced as I didn't appeal the fine and I paid it promptly to a €1000+ fine.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

elusive
Resident
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: frigiliana

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby elusive » Wed May 24, 2017 1:38 pm

Looking on the 2015 filing theres no box 027 but theres 028 that says rendimientos derivados de contractos de seguro de vida o invalidez y de operaciones de capitalizacion.and has an € amount in it Is this the same?

Looking at the 2014 filing the above comes under 027 .so i presume the number changed to 028 in 2015?

User avatar
fyfin
Resident
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Turre Almeria

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby fyfin » Wed May 24, 2017 2:29 pm

Well that's it I'm well and truly stuffed. The new lady only went to the tax inspector and asked for advice and I think we can all guess what advice she was given. All annuities are taxable in full even the one I bought with my own money. And fines are being issued allegedly to people who made returns on this basis. I'm furious as I assumed they would do the returns as on the previous basis. Too late now as the damage has been done. Totally pi**ed off.
A man likes his wife to be just clever enough to appreciate his cleverness, and just stupid enough to admire it

elusive
Resident
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: frigiliana

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby elusive » Wed May 24, 2017 2:48 pm

No way of cancelling the payment? Or a way to claim it back? .i was told by a citizen advice advisor about being able to at least refile a return if it was done wrongly.

User avatar
fyfin
Resident
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Turre Almeria

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby fyfin » Wed May 24, 2017 3:31 pm

Problem is they are saying it is right and it possibly is. So as I said I'm stuffed for the future as well. Can't get a payment back from the Hacienda apparently Any way even if it was wrong.
A man likes his wife to be just clever enough to appreciate his cleverness, and just stupid enough to admire it

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13463
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby El Cid » Wed May 24, 2017 5:21 pm

Gestors will never admit they are wrong. I have seen far bigger mistakes than this and they still will not resubmit. Go to the tax office and they will sort it and in future don't waste good money on a useless gestor and just go to the tax office or do it yourself - that's not difficult if you just follow the previous year's declaration.

Sid

User avatar
fyfin
Resident
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Turre Almeria

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby fyfin » Wed May 24, 2017 7:29 pm

I really wish I had done it myself but there is a line of thought that these annuities should be classed as income for Spanish tax purposes. And if a tax inspector has decreed it and sent letters to existing clients then maybe others are living on borrowed time. Hacienda could use the extra income.
A man likes his wife to be just clever enough to appreciate his cleverness, and just stupid enough to admire it

Lavanda
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4092
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Cáceres Province, Extremadura

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby Lavanda » Thu May 25, 2017 5:02 pm

I agree with Sid. Go to the tax office. Years ago, when we had no idea what we were doing, we paid full tax on two annuities for several years. This was a mixture of Gestor incompetence and our ignorance. We got a full rebate, over €10,000. We also got fined one year for a late return because of the incompetence of a CDS gestor. We successfully appealed the fine. The tax office — in our experience — are helpful. In fact they seem to like 'problems' as it breaks the boredom of their work. So, go to the tax office like Sid advised.

User avatar
fyfin
Resident
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Turre Almeria

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby fyfin » Thu May 25, 2017 6:05 pm

My Spanish is probably not good enough but the point is that because the new person in the company (they changed the company name at the same time as the previous owner left), actually went to the tax office in Huercal Overa for advice.
It was allegedly a tax inspector there who told her what to do so I doubt they will tell me different.
I am considering contacting the head office in Madrid and asking for a ruling as it appears my local office are issuing fines to other clients of the previous owner for incorrect returns with regard to annuities.
I'm frightened to rock the boat as so far I've had 3 years returns on the old basis.
So it's not straightforward I'm afraid.
A man likes his wife to be just clever enough to appreciate his cleverness, and just stupid enough to admire it

Lavanda
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4092
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Cáceres Province, Extremadura

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby Lavanda » Fri May 26, 2017 7:26 am

All the more reason to go to the tax office if things are complicated. Your Gestor may have been told one thing but that does not mean you will be told the same. Information can be misleading sometimes and, maybe the Gestor is interpreting what the tax office said incorrectly. Although you have three years 'in' what's the point of accruing another year, and more, if things are not right and worrying you? There is a rule the tax office goes by and that is, "Was there intention to defraud the tax office?" Clearly, in your case, no. It's your decision, completely, but maybe it's better sorted out sooner rather then later? Good luck.

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 6611
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby gerryh » Fri May 26, 2017 7:39 am

Yes as I said in a previous post.
Make an appointment and go to the tax office.
Take an interpretor with you, usually charges about €20 an hour, far cheaper than paying a gestor.
Get it sorted before you dig yourself into a bigger hole.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

User avatar
fyfin
Resident
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Turre Almeria

Re: Possible error on Modelo 100 tax return

Postby fyfin » Sun May 28, 2017 3:53 pm

I am still going to see the gestor tomorrow and I have found this document which seems to confirm that the previous returns may have been right anyway . Page 30 is the relevant page . I believe the annuity is a renta vitalica imediata
http://www.boe.es/buscar/pdf/2006/BOE-A ... lidado.pdf
If we can't agree I will go to the tax office myself but I really want these people who I paid a fee to, to accept they were wrong.
A man likes his wife to be just clever enough to appreciate his cleverness, and just stupid enough to admire it


Return to “Living in Andalucia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 14 guests