First occupation licence

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USINSPAIN
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First occupation licence

Postby USINSPAIN » Tue May 30, 2017 2:07 pm

I am about to sell a property here in spain but I do not see in my paperwork a first occupation licence, the house was built in 2001 I purchased it in 2002 unfortunately I had bad lawyer so there is not much paperwork, although I did get the property registered in 2009, would I have needed a first occupation licence to register it. If not how can I get another licence do I need to use another lawyer or can I get it myself.
Thank you

ashtondav
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby ashtondav » Tue May 30, 2017 5:29 pm

Others are more knowledgeable than me but I found these threads useful.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=36940&p=363722&hilit=Dafo#p363710

And

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36698&p=361274&hilit=Dafo#p361274

And

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=34997&p=339949&hilit=Dafo#p339949

Needless to say it ain't straightforward.

Miro
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby Miro » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:34 am

I suggest you go to the notary where you will sign, and ask exactly what paperwork will be required on your part. It's highly unlikely that you'll need to produce a first licence of occupation. I've only heard of that being a requirement in Valencia (the heart of illegal build territory!) I just sold in Torremolinos, and it was not required.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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El Cid
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby El Cid » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:13 pm

Miro wrote: I've only heard of that being a requirement in Valencia (the heart of illegal build territory!)


Really? There are 300000 illegal properties in Andalucia - I doubt that Valencia can beat that! It's the very first thing the buyers solicitor will want to see.

Sid

USINSPAIN
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby USINSPAIN » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:20 pm

I have just sold my other and you are correct first request was for first licence so how do I get one ????

ashtondav
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Re: First occupation licences th

Postby ashtondav » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:11 pm

If you haven't got one you can't get one! Every house over about 25 years old doesn't have one as they weren't invented! I suggest you read the threads I linked on DAFOs. I think this is your only option. Your town hall architect will advise: 1. Whether you have a LFO and 2. Whether you can get a DAFO. Or in the worst case the property is illegal, but I suspect not.

USINSPAIN
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby USINSPAIN » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:47 am

Do you mean to say although they registered it for me in 2007 it could still be illegal?

El Cid
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby El Cid » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:06 pm

Many illegal houses are registered as they are registered and built as something other than a vivienda - usually some sort of agricultural building, which does not need a LFO. You need to make sure just exactly what your "house" is. If it is a Vivienda then it would normally have needed a LFO when the escritura for the house build was created. Without it, and a copy of the building licence, it would not have got past the notary. My escritura contains a copy of all the relevant paperwork, including the LFO.

Sid

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Re: First occupation licence

Postby Gasman » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:01 pm

Sorry Sid - but I think it depends on where you live AGAIN. In our local pueblo, we got our Estate Agent to chat with the town Notary about our lack of paperwork - we bought in late 2006 - as we come to try to sell. He declares that as long as it has the escritura, all is OK and that they will not be asking for LDO or other. However, advice from non-local estate agent with foreign clients, feels we should have one in case his diligent prospective purchasers have read up and it will be the first thing they ask about!! We have got a local architect to measure and do the plans etc (the Town Hall architects insist they have no plan registered, even though a previous escritura plainly indicates that one was submitted at the time of construction - goodness knows where that has got to?), but we have not gone through with the final stage of submitting this paperwork for a new LdO until we ARE asked for one, as we will have to pay the taxes which are a percentage of the Cadastral Value (which is currently under discussion as our finca is being split into a habitable half and an agricultural half - so we would prefer to pay on the new lower rate!!! Nightmare!

El Cid
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby El Cid » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:02 pm

As I said, the LFO is referred to in the escritura (assuming it is a vivienda) and therefore there is no need to produce it as it is in the escritura.

Sid

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Re: First occupation licence

Postby Gasman » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:37 pm

OK - thanks Sid
We will ease back and see what happens if we ever get a sale going. At present the market is very slow over here in the west.

ashtondav
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby ashtondav » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:12 am

El Cid wrote:As I said, the LFO is referred to in the escritura (assuming it is a vivienda) and therefore there is no need to produce it as it is in the escritura.

Sid


What if the house was built, registered and bought before the introduction of LFOs?

El Cid
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby El Cid » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:16 pm

The house in question was built in 2001 so it should have an LFO. Older houses probably won't have one.

Sid

ashtondav
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby ashtondav » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:44 pm

Yes I know. I was wondering what the procedure would be for an older house. Is that where a dafo has to be obtained, then?

Miro
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby Miro » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:02 pm

El Cid wrote:You need to make sure just exactly what your "house" is. If it is a Vivienda then it would normally have needed a LFO when the escritura for the house build was created. Without it, and a copy of the building licence, it would not have got past the notary. My escritura contains a copy of all the relevant paperwork, including the LFO.

Sid


My escritura when I bought in 2004 had no mention of the LFO, and the notary who handled the sale 3 weeks ago never asked for one. In fact, I specifically asked at the notary weeks before signing about this, and they looked at me like I was simple. I asked several "professionals", because I was concerned I might still get asked for a one; the info I got was that in Valencia they require it by law...but not in Andalucía
Who knows?! But this is why I suggested the op asks the notary where he'll be signing.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

El Cid
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby El Cid » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:46 pm

Having built a house in Andalucia in 2003 I can assure you that an LFO was an integral part of the process, just like the original licence, 10 year insurance, sign off by the architect, geological survey etc. Without all that paper work it would be impossible to get the new build added to the land escritura and subsequently registered.

Sid

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Re: First occupation licence

Postby wollie » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:03 am

El Cid wrote:As I said, the LFO is referred to in the escritura (assuming it is a vivienda) and therefore there is no need to produce it as it is in the escritura.

I thought the LFO was a completely separate document to escritura.
I am assuming this comment means new properties built after a certain time have their LFO included.
Does this mean that older properties are exempt?
Sorry but i find all of this very confusing.

El Cid
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby El Cid » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:14 am

It is a separate document, but the notary will not sign the Escritura de Obra Nueva for a dwelling unless it exists. My escritura has a notarised copy at the back of the escritura together with the other relevant documents.

Sid

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Re: First occupation licence

Postby wollie » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:03 am

Thanks for that as its becoming a bit clearer, i hope the OP does not mind me asking this as i did ask before but really did not understand replies.
My friend bought a town house some years ago, got the licence from Ayuntamiento and totally refurbished the house.
They do not have LFO as did not know it existed until long after and Architect had moved on.
Is there anything that they now need to do?

El Cid
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Re: First occupation licence

Postby El Cid » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:41 am

The house is probably too old to have one and there is no reason why anyone should ask for one. A town house that has been there for years is very unlikely to be illegal.

It is when you buy a house in the campo that problems may arise as the "house" may have been built as an agricultural building and illegally used as a house. That's where the LFO is important as it proves that the house is more likely to be legal. Also, you cannot get electricity or water connected to a new build without an LFO.

Sid


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