changing status of Bank account to non-resident

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Gasman
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changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Gasman » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:11 am

This may be one for Miro, and others who have moved out of Spain. We have an on-line account with BBVA in Spain - as residents. If we should move out of Spain, and thus become non-resident, does this affect the status of the bank account, and if so in what way? What changes have to made apart from the obvious notification of change of address?! We want to keep the account open at least for some time after a possible move. All in the distant planning stage at the moment.
I know non-resident accounts are in some way different to resident accounts for folk setting them up, but what happens to an established resident account when one becomes non-resident?
Thanks
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elusive
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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby elusive » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:46 pm

Cant imagine much? other than having to pay the "tax" that comes with a non resident account

Miro
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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Miro » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:20 pm

Can't really say, because when we asked in Sabadell they were pretty useless. Didn't want to complicate things by giving them our new UK address and possibly end up having to provide them with tax residency certificates from the UK or something silly like that, or pay "non-resident" fees etc. etc., so we did nothing. We were only keeping the account open because we had applied to our ayuntamiento for the new subvencionés, for which they required us to pay the IBI in full and then wait (and hope) for them to pay us something back into our account. We now know that we won't be getting any refund (another story!) so have no further use for the account. If by any chance we do need to pay anyone in Spain, we still have an account with Lloyds in Gibraltar which gives us free transfers (in euros) to Spain.
Our Sabadell account was free of charges as long as we had (I think) €800 paid in every month. We've had nothing paid in since leaving in May. But since the charges are only taken quarterly if you don't, we had a bit of leeway. As we no longer need the account, we fully intended to close it, but were told by Sabadell that we could only do so in person - both of us, as it's a joint account. They said they would not accept written instructions! So we did what the manager advised us to do - transferred the remaining balance out of the account before the next charges are due. She explained that if they try to take charges and there's a zero balance, they will basically close the account down. And that, she said, was our only way to effectively close the account if we're no longer in Spain. We had a balance of 60 odd euros and change, so I duly transferred the lot out (using Currency Fair) a couple of weeks ago. Only to discover that Sabadell charged me €5.75 for the transaction. So our account is now €5.75 overdrawn! Absurd. Do I care?
Not one bit - they can sing for it, along with Endesa who were equally stupid over finalising our electric bill, and lost about €18 as a result.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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White Horse
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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby White Horse » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:53 pm

You don't lose your right to hold a certificate of EC residence immediately. You can spend up to 2 years out of the country and return and still be considered resident.
If you are selling up and just keeping the account open for a short period, I wouldn't do anything at all, as it will only confuse matters.
Either have your post redirected or make a friendly arrangement with your buyers in case you get official mail.
Online banking was useful when I moved to the UK, and I gave my solicitor power of attorney to close the account when I had finished all the business.

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby El Cid » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:06 pm

The main difference is that any interest payments made on resident accounts have income tax deducted at source and NR accounts are paid in full.

The other difference is that the annual costs can be higher as they charge for various NR certificates.

I agree with White Horse, do nothing at the moment.

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Manchesteral » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:31 am

I have a "non resident" account with Deutsche bank, if I make 3 transactions per month with my debit card there are no charges, so far so good :-)

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Manchesteral » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:32 am

elusive wrote:Cant imagine much? other than having to pay the "tax" that comes with a non resident account


What taxes ?

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby elusive » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:34 pm

The charge you get for having a non resident account

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Manchesteral » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:41 pm

That may be what appeared on my Deutsche bank account last week, €37.00, it was apparently for a certificate of non residence, that's not monthly though, I checked, it's a one off registration fee and my advisor at the bank says there are no taxes, as such !!

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby spanish_lad » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:44 am

Miro wrote: So our account is now €5.75 overdrawn! Absurd. Do I care?
Not one bit - they can sing for it, along with Endesa who were equally stupid over finalising our electric bill, and lost about €18 as a result.



Don't you worry that they will both come after you for it, plus charges?
- rip mum - gone but never forgotten x - :(

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White Horse
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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby White Horse » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:49 am

I somehow doubt that Miro is cowering in Merseyside somewhere, hiding from the Spanish authorities, from a debt caused by an unjust fee.
Power to the people, Miro!!

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Miro » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:41 pm

It's a good question, SL, because normally I'm the type of person who does worry about that kind of thing. It's partly why we decided to sell as non-residents, even at the risk of losing the 3% retention (although we're owed it back) rather than owe income tax in Spain for this year. I don't like owing anybody anything. But in this case, both parties deserve to be out of pocket due to their own stupidity and inefficiency, but either way I'm not worried. Endesa I know for a fact pass such debts on to a collection agency, who will not bother trying to recover this particular debt because it would cost more than they'd recover. And as for the bank, the same is probably true, but anyway, I simply did exactly what our branch manager told us to do. Neither Endesa nor Sabadell have any idea where we are anyway, and I think it's highly unlikely they're going to bother trying to find out (although I'm sure they could)
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Gasman » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:44 pm

Thanks all for interesting and useful points of view - as I said it is all very much in the planning stage at the moment, but if there is one thing we have learned in Spain, it is that it is better to be forearmed and forewarned, than crying over spilt milk!
So with that mixed metaphor ... thanks again, and sorry for the short silence - have been away for a week.
Cheers

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:59 pm

Under EU law you are allowed to hold a current account in any EU country you want. Also because all bank accounts in the EU have an IBAN (standardised account number) you can set up direct debits and make interbank transfers between countries really easily. For example if you had an electricty bill in Spain you can set up the direct debit to pay it from an account in Germany and it will act exactky the same as an account in Spain. Basically it means there is no need to maintain an account in Spain, you can hold the account in any country. So in short if the the Spanish bank is causing you any problems well officially they can't discriminate under EU law. However in reality the easiest thing to do is open an account in another EU country. The obvious places for you are Malta and Ireland as they are in the Euro and speak English.Getting cash from the accounts is easy and if you need to go that route I can tell you which banks don't charge for ATM withdrawla the only issue you need to worty about is how you would lodge cash.

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby El Cid » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:33 pm

And how will that be affected by Brexit?

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:00 am

Who knows how Brexit will affect anything. If only I had a crystal ball I would be sitting on my yacht having somebody type this for me.

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Miro » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:12 am

I wonder what EU law says about charging non-residents for a pointless certificate on a regular basis, just to hold a current account then?
Going back to Gasman's original question, I would suggest that you won't need to keep the account open for very long after leaving anyway if you've planned and organised things well, and since it's an online account, you don't really need to worry about even changing the address for notifications - just make sure you go paperless so the new occupants don't get loads of mail from BBVA. I wouldn't try to complicate things by telling them you're now non-residents. Just my humble opinion.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:23 am

The EU law says nothing about charges other than the cost cannot be different for holding the account regardless of residence. What is the non-resident certificate needed for? I don't hold any Spanish bank accounts and it is not something I need to get from banks in 4 other countries in the EU where I held accounts whilst not living in the country.

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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Miro » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:29 pm

As far as I can make out, the non-resident certificate is to prove you're a non-resident (only in Spain would you have to prove a negative), and if you don't obtain one yourself, your bank will charge you for it. Seems to me that's clearly in breach of EU rules, but that's why Spaniards would never be so stupid as to vote for Spexit (Espalida?) - their govt. & institutions aren't so stupid as to follow the rules!
Perhaps a non-resident account holder can give a better answer though?
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: changing status of Bank account to non-resident

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:37 pm

Ah so this is the Cert from hacienda and you have to give it to the bank....if you don't get it then the bank will get it on your behalf and charge you for it. Now I follow. This is not unique to Spain similar arragements exist in other EU countries.

Easy way around this open an account in Malta, which you can use in eactly the same way as the Spanish bank account but without the tax office pains. This applies to both residents and non-residents. Personally I will not maintain an account in Spain for reasons of inheritance and wealth taxes. Additionally I know someone who had his account frozen in Spain whilst in dispute with the hacienda. The hacienda cannot do this so easily if your account is not in Spain.


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