"tu" or "su"

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wollie
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"tu" or "su"

Postby wollie » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:46 am

These two words mean the same "you"
Which more appropriate?

TorreDelAguila
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby TorreDelAguila » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:21 am

Don't they mean 'you' and 'your' respectively?
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby Gasman » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:52 am

Now if you have experience in France, you would want to use a polite vous, or in spanish su, but in Spain it does not quite work like that. All and sundry tend to use tu when speaking in the singular, though you may have noticed that with verbs you dont even need to use the pronoun except for emphasis or clarity. Su translates into english as he-she-it doing whatever, but also includes USTED which means the polite you-singular.

With our next door neighbours for instance, we chat away always in the tu, however every now and then a usted slips in, to give emphasis on a particular point, eg that we may not understand as foreigners and non-locals, or that extra respect is due on this delicate point in the conversation ... it can get very subtle.

However, meeting your bank manager for the first time, dealing with older respected persons that you do not know at all, or perhaps putting a complaint to the waiter - you use the usted and its related su.

As far as I have been able to ascertain, the use of the su (which is really totally impersonal, as you are referring to the chap in front of you as "he"") came about by the likes of servants and serf not being about to address the boss/lord-of-the-manor directly - so they used this form, in much the same way as you address royalty - Mrs Queen, shall I get you a chair to sit on ------------Nooooooo
Would your Majesty like me to get her a chair - totally formal and OTT
Will Sir step this way please? ....
Is Madam quite happy with her soup? ...
Take out the Sir or Madam and use the usted - note that in the usted usage of the he-she-it bit of the verb, the pronoun usted should be voiced to make it clear that you are being polite, and have not messed up which bit of verb to use! And for the "her" soup, you will use the "su" which in English would seem very strange, until you look at it from a Regal/Majestic point of view. Happily tugging of forelock as gone out of fashion!

Unicorn
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby Unicorn » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:00 pm

I would advise usted with police....

wollie
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby wollie » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:08 pm

Unicorn, do you think i might get arrested for not paying €50 speeding ticket?
Anyway thanks for advise.....

markwilding
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby markwilding » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:55 pm

Tu and Su is correct
Tu means your in the second person singular
Su is normally used in the third person singular but can be also used in as a more formal or polite way of saying tu
Tu can also be you in the second person singular and es or usted can be used if you want to speak more formally

Manchesteral
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby Manchesteral » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:31 pm

What about "ti" how would you use it ?

markwilding
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby markwilding » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:21 am

Ti Is the object pronoun. In English this would also be you but the difference is its function in a sentence.
You love her. You is the subject pronoun, in other words, the person doing the action. In Spanish tu
He loves you. Here you is the object pronoun and the action is being done to you. In Spanish Ti

To confuse it even more, the object pronoun often goes before the verb in Spanish whereas in English it mostly goes after the verb.

(Yo) ti quiero and (Yo) ti amo = I love you
Last edited by markwilding on Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

Manchesteral
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby Manchesteral » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:44 am

Thanks Mark, being the near illiterate that I am that's about as clear as mud to me, thanks anyway :-)

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White Horse
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby White Horse » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:01 pm

...
Last edited by White Horse on Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ericsbcn
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby ericsbcn » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:17 pm

markwilding wrote:Ti Is the object pronoun. In English this would also be you but the difference is its function in a sentence.
You love her. You is the subject pronoun, in other words, the person doing the action. In Spanish tu
He loves you. Here you is the object pronoun and the action is being done to you. In Spanish Ti

To confuse it even more, the object pronoun often goes before the verb in Spanish whereas in English it mostly goes after the verb.

(Yo) ti quiero and (Yo) ti amo = I love you


Sorry, this is incorrect. The "you" object pronoun is "te". It should be:

(Yo) te quiero and (Yo) te amo = I love you

"ti" is the "you" prepositional pronoun. Example:

Es para ti = it's for you.

https://www.spanishdict.com/guide/direc ... in-spanish
https://www.spanishdict.com/guide/prepo ... in-spanish

- Eric S.

markwilding
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby markwilding » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:41 pm

Thanks for correcting me.i should have realised because
Te quiero and para ti are pronounced differently.

Of course it just adds to how confusing it all can be for English speakers because in English all of them are you as well as the second person plural which is also you .
Vosotros / vosotras
Os
When speaking, this is where I more than often slip up and find myself using the singular instead of the plural.

ericsbcn
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby ericsbcn » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:28 pm

Right. Not to mention the formal "you" and it's plural! :?

tu = you
vosotros = you
usted = you
ustedes = you

Ay!

- Eric S.

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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby Gasman » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:29 am

I think Wollie must have nodded off - gone awfully quiet on the subject!

jhonie99
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby jhonie99 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:01 am

FFS, only the Brits would concern themselves with such triviality. What planet are these people on!!

The majority of Spaniards can barely speak the Spanish language properly. No Spaniard remotely cares about grammar, apart from academics. All that matters is that "I get what I want". That's the modis operandi.

It's the same in England, the majority of the English can barely speak English properly and I'm not referring to foreigners in England, nor what I would call British. Anyone want to buy a peRgeot rather than a peugeot! But of course I have no ideaR what I'm talking about, lol.

Down here in Canarias, we consider people who use vosotros to be posh.

Have a nice day. Meeting partner (Spanish) for lunch, I'll have a great laugh at his grammar and tell him that he should get Spanish lessons from a Brit.

markwilding
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby markwilding » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:05 pm

The Spanish may well not be interested in grammar but they have to study it at school therefore have a much better knowledge of it than the English

I’m not sure why people there consider vosotros to be posh because it’s the correct way to say you in the second person plural.
Nothing posh about that at all. Having said that subject pronouns tend to be omitted in Spanish anyway.
Did you mean ousted which is more formal?

I think whether or not it should be used depends on where you are are Spain.Up here In Bilbao it is considered old fashioned and rarely used
but in Castilla and villages it is more widely used. I remember an occasion when somebody got quite offended when I didn’t address her mother using it.

Manchesteral
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby Manchesteral » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:01 pm

jhonie99 wrote:FFS, only the Brits would concern themselves with such triviality. What planet are these people on!!

The majority of Spaniards can barely speak the Spanish language properly. No Spaniard remotely cares about grammar, apart from academics. All that matters is that "I get what I want". That's the modis operandi.

It's the same in England, the majority of the English can barely speak English properly and I'm not referring to foreigners in England, nor what I would call British. Anyone want to buy a peRgeot rather than a peugeot! But of course I have no ideaR what I'm talking about, lol.

Down here in Canarias, we consider people who use vosotros to be posh.

Have a nice day. Meeting partner (Spanish) for lunch, I'll have a great laugh at his grammar and tell him that he should get Spanish lessons from a Brit.


This is an excellent observation jhonie, In Gran Canaria they spit on Spanish grammar and sometimes make it up as they go along, for instance, "what's wrong with you" would normally be "Que sucede contigo" in Gran Canaria they just say ""Que pasa contigo" there are many other anomalies !!

markwilding
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby markwilding » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:58 am

'¿Qué pasa contigo?' isn't an anomaly but another way of saying the same thing and correct Spanish. In English you could also use What's up with you? to say What's wrong with you.

Having a little knowledge of grammar goes a long way when you want to learn a foreign language. 'Like' is really difficult verb to translate from English to Spanish especially in spoken Spanish, if you don't know how the verbs works and don't know the basics.
I know Me gusta and te gusta are easy to say but try saying 'they like me' quickly in normal conversation without having to think about it for a few seconds.

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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby peteroldracer » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:01 pm

"'Like' is really difficult verb to translate "
Listening to young Brits in the UK on tv they would be totally lost without the word in English as it is used repeatedly, idiotically and uneccessarily!
They have however caught the old Spanish habit of starting most sentences with "pues", using "So"!
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves

wollie
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Re: "tu" or "su"

Postby wollie » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:53 am

This is a slight related question...
Which is the best "buena dia" greeting?
I go for a walk most mornings and because it is the same people most mornings i get so many different greetings i find it confusing.
I just interested in the views of the experts here....


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