Living In Spain v elsewhere/was Pozo negro

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silver
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Postby silver » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:13 am

frank
Have you, for example, fully commited yourself to Spain, and become a Spanish citizen?
Spain like England forms part of the european community...
If the meaning of "commited" is obligated; engaged; industrious; ambitious; loyal...
Then the only thing I am commited to... is my family....
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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jpinks
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Re: Living In Spain v elsewhere/was Pozo negro

Postby jpinks » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:19 am

ok - back to the original "question"
Bongtrees wrote:Kevin does make a good point and left me wondering just how many people would live in Spain full time if they had an unlimited supply of money.
That's a fatuous question - with unlimited money we would all do different things, and live in different places.
Bongtrees wrote:Although an outsider (living in the Valencia region) I dont think I have ever met anyone (not Spanish of course) who would. Maybe you are or know someone who are the exception.
Many do - look at the millionaires, film and sports stars around the costas.
Bongtrees wrote:Living on a track in an uninsulated house with a woodburner or worst stilll a portable gas heater, well water, no electricity etc etc are manageable when someone is fit and healthy but I would not like to think how difficult that or those persons lives could deteriote if they or a partner becomes infirm.
The same can easily be said about living anywhere - we all have to think of the future and plan for those days.
Bongtrees wrote:I for one am concerned about the filth and rubbish dumped in the countryside and here around Valencia I dont see any evidence of sewage treatment works to take mains drainage when and if urbs are forced to install it.
That happens in all countries, UK included. Litter is terrible and there are places where untreated sewerage is dumped into rivers and the sea.
Bongtrees wrote:Whilst I agree that the climate in many areas of Spain is beneficial for some ailments it is not my idea of paradise. But I am not rich so at the present time I chose to live here.
Good for you - and as long as we treat it as a nice place to live which suits our purpose now, we won't get carried away on some unrealistic dream of living in an ideal place, because such a place doesn't exist .
Slainte,
JohnP.

frank
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Postby frank » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:23 am

silver wrote:frank
Have you, for example, fully commited yourself to Spain, and become a Spanish citizen?
Spain like England forms part of the european community...
If the meaning of "commited" is obligated; engaged; industrious; ambitious; loyal...
Then the only thing I am commited to... is my family....


I'll take that as a "no" then, shall I? :D Not loyal to Spain, it figures!
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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silver
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Postby silver » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:26 am

Moral.. If you don't want to be too hot/cold..look for a south oriented property, on the coast (Marbella has the best climate, the mountain behind keeps out north winds..its colder in the hills due to the altitude) that has been well built (there are a lot of DIY shacks around) and insulated and has air conditioning.....
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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Postby frank » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:33 am

jpinks wrote:
frank wrote:As for "becoming a Spanish citizen" - I presume you mean do they have residencia? A lot do have, but it's not a question I ask everyone.


You presume wrong, I mean, have totally thrown their lot in with Spain, and taken Spanish citizenship. You've deserted UK, you no longer need to be a UK citizen, so why not prove your commitment to your new country and become a citizen of it. Seems a perfectly logical step to me.
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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silver
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Postby silver » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:46 am

frank
I'll take that as a "no" then, shall I? Very Happy Not loyal to Spain, it figures!

Take whatever you like...I´m not gonna give you my DNI.
The meaning of loyal.. Steadfast in allegiance to one's homeland, government, or sovereign. Faithful to a person, ideal, custom, cause, or duty....no mate I have to admit I am not loyal to anything other than myself and my family... evolution of my personal ideals refrain my loyalty.
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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kevin77
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Postby kevin77 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:52 am

Yeh, you show em Silver. Hand your passport in! Or are you all mouth?

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silver
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Postby silver » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:58 am

You've deserted UK, you no longer need to be a UK citizen, so why not prove your commitment to your new country and become a citizen of it. Seems a perfectly logical step to me.

Prove your commitment...really... are you a dictator...no one has to prove anything...
Why don't you heed your own words and
prove to us all that you are not just jealous..
prove to us that life in England is better..
prove to us that you don't really care about others dreams that have come true..go on
You have tried...OK but
prove it....Seems a perfectly logical step to me
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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silver
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Postby silver » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:05 pm

kevin77
Or are you all mouth

Childish comment..for someone who is 28 years old.
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

frank
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Postby frank » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:05 pm

silver wrote:
You've deserted UK, you no longer need to be a UK citizen, so why not prove your commitment to your new country and become a citizen of it. Seems a perfectly logical step to me.

Prove your commitment...really... are you a dictator...no one has to prove anything...
Why don't you heed your own words and
prove to us all that you are not just jealous..
prove to us that life in England is better..
prove to us that you don't really care about others dreams that have come true..go on
You have tried...OK but
prove it....Seems a perfectly logical step to me


:D :D :D Yes!!! :D :D :D
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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kevin77
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Postby kevin77 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:14 pm

Steady on Silver, youre losing it old chap!
By the way im a bit the wrong side of 28, though not ready to retire to my dream home in the sun yet.

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silver
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Postby silver » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:39 pm

Steady on Silver, youre losing it old chap!

Wisdom comes with age...
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

Guest

Living in Spain

Postby Guest » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:09 pm

Well I for one intend to make the move to live in Spain permanently next year, and don't intend to be put off.

I made sure to buy a house in a town with good public transport links as I don't drive, and not up in the mountains as I know from experience of living in the foothills of the Pennines how much colder that is! Yes, we do have power cuts in Spain sometimes but my water supply is problem free, I don't hve a problem with the electrics tripping, and in England I have experienced 3 days without electricity (and this at Easter) because snow had brought the poower lines down. You just learn to be prepared and have candles to hand, and never become totally reliant on electricity for both cooking and heating.

Yes, my house in Spain is colder in the winter because of not having central heating. But then I don't have to sit inside all day long gazing out on day after day of rain, fog (euphemistically know as low cloud where I live), ice and snow. It's actually warmer to sit outside on my roof terrace admiring the view. With a calor gas heater for the evenings and electric heating in the bathroom, it's no worse than the house I was brought up in as a child where we had coal fires, an outside loo and often ice on the inside of the bedroom windows at night. Sorry if this begins to sound like a Monty Python skektch but its true! I think we get overeliant on creature comforts which are not really good for either ourselves (you only have to look at the rise in the number of children with allergies including asthma) or for the environment, and are not really necessary for a decent quality of life.

I know Spain is not perfect and we certainly have a problem in our town with litter and dog mess, but no worse than in England. I have encountered far less anti-social behaviour than has become the norm in England. The public transport system is far, far better and cheaper than England, and I hear good reports of the state health service. In England my nearest town for shopping is 7 miles away whereas in Velez I can walk to a really good range of shops. My local swimming pool in England was closed due to cuts in public services years ago - there is a good indoor pool and other public sports facilities in Velez. My dustbins are emptied once every 2 weeks in England but rubbish bins are emptied every day in Spain (albeit I have to take my own rubbish to the bins, no great hardship). All this for Council Tax of £90 per month for a small terraced house in England against an annual IBI bill of 264E in Velez.

The cost of living in Spain is so much lower that I will be able to retire next year at the age of 50 which I could never do if I stayed in England. I can't wait to leave a 1.5 hour each way commute in the horrible English weather and coping with transport delays. One day last week a return journey from Lancashire to Leeds for work took just under 8 hours due to deficiencies in the public transport system.

I do appreciate that it is much harder to make the move to Spain if you need to work to earn a living, and I know several people who are really struggling even though they have useful transferable skills eg in the buikding trade and speak fluent Spanish. For that reason I am waiting until I know I won't have to work.

The only things I expect to miss are my family (but hey, I can get back to see them in less time than I could if I lived in London) and the public library - and thiat's only because I can't read for pleasure in Spanish yet. I hope my new life will give me the time to work on improving my Spanish, instead of it being all work, eat and sleep.

I feel the problems some emigrants experience after moving to Spain could be avoided if people researched locations and facilities more carefully in advance - and don't expect everything to be exactly the same as it is in the UK, otherwise why bother?

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silver
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Postby silver » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:42 pm

Lynn R You seem to know what/why/when you are doing
The only things I expect to miss are my family

Others will tell you, this will not happen..prepair yourself for visitors.( for "some reason, people like coming here")
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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Postby kevin77 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:59 pm

The cost of living in Spain is so much lower that I will be able to retire next year at the age of 50 which I could never do if I stayed in England

Another typical 'Spain is all good and UK is all bad' posting?
Good luck with your new life Lynn, but you must acknowledge that working all these years in Manchester has made you financially secure enough to buy your dream property and to retire at 50 - something that would be impossible working in Malaga, even if you could find a job..
So your life in England has given you a great advantage.
By the way, I have never had any power cuts or difficulty shopping during my years in Manchester. And your council tax seems incredibly high - I would query that, is that band A? As for anti social behaviour - I will agree with you on that.

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Re: Living in Spain

Postby frank » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:10 pm

[quote="Lynn R"]Well I for one intend to make the move to live in Spain permanently next year, and don't intend to be put off.

I wish you luck! Mind you, if I lived where you live, with all your problems, I'd be moving too!
.

Yes, my house in Spain is colder in the winter because of not having central heating. But then I don't have to sit inside all day long gazing out on day after day of rain, fog (euphemistically know as low cloud where I live), ice and snow. It's actually warmer to sit outside on my roof terrace admiring the view.

You better put your big coat on then!

With a calor gas heater for the evenings and electric heating in the bathroom, it's no worse than the house I was brought up in as a child where we had coal fires, an outside loo and often ice on the inside of the bedroom windows at night.


Exactly, the point that was being made. That was 50 years ago! You're going back in time, you're getting older now, you'll feel the cold more. I can just see you huddled around a gas heater, trying to keep warm. Been there, done it, it ain't much fun.

Sorry if this begins to sound like a Monty Python skektch but its true! I think we get overeliant on creature comforts which are not really good for either ourselves

It does sound "montypytonesque". :D You've probably worked all your life, you deserve a few creature comforts, you've earnt them! You deserve better than huddling around a stove when you get to 60 or 70.



The only things I expect to miss are my family (but hey, I can get back to see them in less time than I could if I lived in London) and the public library - and thiat's only because I can't read for pleasure in Spanish yet. I hope my new life will give me the time to work on improving my Spanish, instead of it being all work, eat and sleep.

You don't need Spanish, do what the rest do, get a huge dish and watch the UK soaps and footy!

I hope you find what you are looking for, and enjoy your retirement.


/quote]
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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silver
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Postby silver » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:23 pm

frank
I'm non resident, merely a humble tourist, so what do I know!

Your words..not mine.
kevin77 start saving then maybe you too will become
financially secure enough to buy your dream property and to retire at 50

which


you could never do if you stayed in England
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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Postby Lorraine - Mijas » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:05 pm

Hi Lynn R,
I don't think the point of this thread is to actively put off or discourage people to make the move but more to give lots of differing views on the pro's and con's of full time life here . I personally wish you well in your future move and truly and sincerely hope you are very happy.
I also think you are wise to wait until you are financially self sufficient (for want of a better description), Sadly it seems easier for the more dishonest members of society (British not Spanish) to find ways of earning a living than the more honest ones.
Living East of Malaga is probably nicer in terms of being more "real Spain" than the west, in terms of traffic, with the exception of Malaga, which can be a nightmare as is with all Cities.
The roads between Marbella and Estepona are often hellish and equal to anything I had to encounter in the UK.
I live a few miles inland not too far from Mijas and a 30 minute journey to work has regularly taken 1 and ahalf hours , and on numerous occasions taken 3 hours, so no where is perfect.
Anyone who moves here expecting life to be the same as the UK, should seek help as they are obviously not of sound mind. Most people move here in my view because it is NOT like the UK, My own reason to leave the UK, (which I still love by the way) has more to do with seeking a life which is not based on self obsession, greed and free for all petty crime (now much more serious than PETTY, than ever before). Lack of justice, freeloaders on state benefit and political correctness gone mad. A life better described as British values of yesteryear and not a new LITTLE ENGLAND, as has been suggested by those who snipe at anyone who See's Spain in real terms and not those of the Rose Specs variety.
Spain is a fabulous country, with lots to offer, not perfect by any means which is the point of the thread, no where is perfect, England is equally a wonderful country but it's faults are numerous and spiraling out of control, it seems to be in self destruct mode . If only we could turn back the clock 50 years and have a society where people had respect for one another, everyone knew the names of everyone else in the street and where murder was Shocking instead of the norm.
My disappointment with Spain has nothing to do with the weather, the location of my home or the country itself, the biggest turn off for me has been the people, NOT THE SPANISH, but the British, There seems to be too many con men, just waiting to rip off the naive and too many foul mouthed time share people. Then there's the other end of the scale, The elitist's and total snobs who swan around with an arrogance that is amazing to watch. Where are all the in between people, the ones who want a decent quiet life , have no desire to make a fast buck out of others and respect those around them. This is my main disappointment, it may not seem that important an issue to others but for me, I can accept and get on with most of life's differences but peoples behavior is harder to ignore.
Lorriane

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silver
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Postby silver » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:15 pm

Lorraine - Mijas
Where are all the in between people, the ones who want a decent quiet life , have no desire to make a fast buck out of others and respect those around them.

Good question.
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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kevin77
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Postby kevin77 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:16 pm

If I moved to Andalucia Silver, I would be retired Full Stop. Whatever my age. Like the rest of you, I wouldnt have any choice in the matter. With no job opportunities, Id have to keep active by digging out septic tanks and installing solar panels etc on my country shack.


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