Living In Spain v elsewhere/was Pozo negro

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.
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silver
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Postby silver » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:20 am

katy
spanish builders
spanish workmen..not builders
our cortijo
casita..cortijo, no these are always well built.
sitting out the winter in jumpers and sox

I do believe you have to doble the quantity in England...and have a coat....
I do not own a coat...there is no need fro one.. there are very few days when you cant sit outside in a tshirt during the day..at night its a bit colder but any thermometer will prove that its a lot warmer than the rest of Europe.
Katy..you kevin are just made for each other..go fo it...
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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silver
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Postby silver » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:38 am

kevin.. What? so I have to sell up and move to a rundown shack in the mountains with no water, gas, electricity, sewerage..A run down shack is not so expensive...what would you get in UK for the same price.....

Frank.. I would only move to Spain for a much better quality of life, and sitting in a damp, freezing house through the winter does not seem a step in the right direction. There is no doubt that the costs more to live in UK so its logical that for the same money it cost in UK you can get a better quality of life in Spain...Spend the same on heating in Spain as you do in UK and you would have to have the windows and doors open all the time.

Have you complained to the BBC that you are not satisfied with the dream they sold you¿¿¿[/quote]
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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Postby Guest » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:42 am

Kevin:
Actually if you read my original post I didn't say Spain is all good and Britain all bad, I was careful to acknowledge that Spain is not perfect, not least because of the extreme difficulty of making a decent living there which I fully appreciate. Yes, working very hard for over 30 years in England will make me able to retire at 50 but I will be getting out as soon as I can. My mother died at 63 which was a real wake-up call for me. I don't intend to keep slogging away for another 10 years to pay into a pension which I might not live long enough to take advantage of if my health suffers as a result of the stress.


Yes, my Council Tax of £90 per month is for a Band A property. That's not in Manchester (which is where I work) but in Rossendale which is a small local authority with a high proportion of the housing stock in Band A which means the Council have to set the Band A tax level higher than average to raise the total amount of revenue they neeed (or so they claim). God knows what they spend it all on given the level of services we received.

Thanks for your concern for my health in old age, Frank! Actually I was still living with coal fires, outside loo etc when I left home to get married which was only 28 years ago not 50, and as others in this thread have said there are still too many people in Britain, particularly the elderly, having to live in disgraceful conditions. If I am feeling the cold more when I get to 60 or over, we have already discussed the fact that we may not be able to stay in our present Spanish house if our health deteriorates but my pension lump sum should enable us to move to a modern apartment (with central heating, what luxury!) if we choose to. My Spanish house may be cold in winter but it's never damp even when unoccupied for 46 weeks of the year.

I do feel I will need to improve my Spanish as I want to be able to communicate properly in the language of my adopted country. Yes I will probably get a satellite dish but no Sky subscription, and certainly not to watch UK soaps or so-called reality TV shows (inane drivel) or football which neither of us likes. Us Northerners aren't all thick philistines you know! I have enjoyed attending reasonably priced concerts and dance performances at my local theatre/cultural centre in Velex and other local attractions such as horse shows - all free. I look forward to having the leisure time to do much more in the years to come.

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kevin77
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Postby kevin77 » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:48 am

What? so I have to sell up and move to a rundown shack in the mountains with no water, gas, electricity, sewerage..A run down shack is not so expensive...what would you get in UK for the same price.....


A demolition notice from the local authority?
I think youve convinced yourself Silver, but thats about all. Please edit my answer if you like. Anybody else have any views on this? Its just the same 5 or 6 people all the time.

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silver
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Postby silver » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:56 am

Its just the same 5 or 6 people all the time.

and 3 of those are you.
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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jpinks
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Postby jpinks » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:03 am

Nice to read that from Lynn R. I hope you manage to spend more time in sunny Andalucia soon. I am wandering around my finca in shorts and short-sleeved shirt this morning, enjoying the lovely sunshine. I bet there's no-one in Northern Europe doing that!!
Slainte,
JohnP.

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Postby frank » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:07 am

silver wrote:.Spend the same on heating in Spain as you do in UK and you would have to have the windows and doors open all the time.

Possibly, but I'd also get a double hernia humping all those bombonas and baskets of logs! No, I'll stick to cranking the central heating up a notch if required, thanks. Or I could do it the Spanish way, switch the CH off and sit around in a big coat and thick socks.


Have you complained to the BBC that you are not satisfied with the dream they sold you¿¿¿

The BBC have not sold me anything. In fact, unlike most of you, I'm not glued to UK TV, I rarely watch any TV. I have to be 100% convinced about something before I part with my cash, and despite your best efforts, you still haven't convinced me Spain is the place I want to spend the rest of my days.

Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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Postby frank » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:45 am

Lynn R wrote:

Thanks for your concern for my health in old age, Frank!

¡De nada!

Actually I was still living with coal fires, outside loo etc when I left home to get married which was only 28 years ago not 50, and as others in this thread have said there are still too many people in Britain, particularly the elderly, having to live in disgraceful conditions.


We certainly were not rich (still aren´t) but I've never had to luxury of an outside loo, although I can vaguely remember coal fires. Even so, in your case, you're talking about nearly 30 years ago. People here quote these disgraceful conditions in UK, and iit might be true, but I have never seen the conditions they talk about. They are comparing it with houses that rich Brits buy in Spain, but they are not comparing like with like. Do you imagine all these little hovels you see in the campo have running water, flushing toilets etc. Have you seen the blocks of flats in the larger cities, bloody awful. I'd rather be poor in UK, than in Spain. If you think gypsies are hard done by in UK, look at the conditions they live in Spain, they are third class citizens. Look at the condition of the living arrangements for the immigrant labourers working in the plastic tunnels, it's pretty dire.
As for the apartment idea Lynn, I'd think long and hard about that. Unless you can afford the top floor, I'd say forget it. The Spanish must be one of the noisiest people in the world, and the way those flats are thrown together, makes them incredibly noisy places to live in. I remember the author Ian Gibson saying he found it impossible to write until he bought the top floor in the block he was living in, the noise was so intense.
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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kevin77
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Postby kevin77 » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:46 am

and 3 of those are you

Are you getting paranoid now?, I think you should come back home we have some nice old folks homes for confused people like you. Poor Silver, if he didnt have Andalucia.com hed have no one to talk to, stuck in his white washed village with only a goat for company.

frank
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Postby frank » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:53 am

kevin77 wrote: Poor Silver, if he didnt have Andalucia.com hed have no one to talk to, stuck in his white washed village with only a goat for company.


:D I was going to ignore him, he talks such utter drivel, but as you say, if we don't talk to him, who else is going to? Deprived of such excellent company, he may do something silly, he sounds a little bit suspect! On reflection, I think I will ignore him, and take the chance that he can stand the loss! :lol:
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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silver
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Postby silver » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:56 am

frank
I have to be 100% convinced about something before I part with my cash, and despite your best efforts, you still haven't convinced me Spain is the place I want to spend the rest of my days.

I am not trying to convince you or anyone else to spend the rest of your days in Spain...oh no ...if it were up to me..I´d close the door. I do like to answer the negative posts that seem to imply that all who have moved/retired to Spain live in rundown mountain shacks watching tv via satalite in freezing cold, damp, with no other form of heating than a bottle gas fire a jumper and a few pair of socks.. this is not for real...the real life in Andalucia is much better and richer than you can imagine ..for those who know how, and dont have time to waste replying to negative posts from someone who is so bitter that even though they claim to love the UK just cant resist or hide their resentment for having failed to live their dream in Spain and will not except that others have.
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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Postby Guest » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:10 am

There are plenty of ugly tower blocks in English cities as well, Frank, that I wouldn't want to live in. I count myself lucky I have never had to.

Also the conditions immigrant agricultural labourers are living in in England are dire as well - think about the deaths of 19 Chinese cockle pickers at Morecambe Bay for instance and the living conditions those people had.

The conclusion I draw that it is not easy to be poor in whatever country you choose to live in. Those of us who are more fortunate should show more concern and tolerance for those who seek to better their lives, including by emigrating. Unlike some posts I have read on this forum in the past, I don't put the decline in standards in Britain down to immigrants or asylum seekers, most of whom I consider to be decent hard working people who just want to improve the lives of themselves and their families (as I have tried to do over the years but I have been fortunate to have good educational and employment opportunities). My problem is more with the white "underclass" who often seem to be content to live off benefits instead of working, breed indiscriminately and then let their numerous offspring run wild. And believe it or not, no I'm not a Tory!

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Postby Bongtrees » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:53 am

[quote="silver"]

Spend the same on heating in Spain as you do in UK and you would have to have the windows and doors open all the timei


Silver, based on my own experience in Spain for the past 3 years and 9 more before in France with an 18month return to UK between the two I have to disagree with you.

I dont live up a mountain but spend the same amount of money on my oil fired central heating system as I did in a similar size property in the UK.

Heating oil is more expensive in Spain than UK and second we feel the cold more and I dont think its just age.

Have you got central heating?

Mike

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Postby frank » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:59 am

Lynn R wrote:. The conclusion I draw that it is not easy to be poor in whatever country you choose to live in.

No, this is indeed true. However, some Spanish I spoke to here in UK, were amazed at the ease with which young, unmarried mothers here got a house and evertything that goes with it. Something that certainly does not happen in Spain. It's not hard to see why so many people are beating a path to our door, often passing through many other European countries to get here. Our benefits system seems incredibly generous, especially compared with other European countries.


Those of us who are more fortunate should show more concern and tolerance for those who seek to better their lives, including by emigrating. Unlike some posts I have read on this forum in the past, I don't put the decline in standards in Britain down to immigrants or asylum seekers, most of whom I consider to be decent hard working people who just want to improve the lives of themselves and their families (as I have tried to do over the years but I have been fortunate to have good educational and employment opportunities).


I can't really comment on immigrants and asylum seekers, I live in a part of the country where as far as I know, we don't have any. I've certainly never seen any. Indeed, it's very rare to even see a coloured face here, so I have no personal experience of some of the problems found in other parts of the country.


My problem is more with the white "underclass" who often seem to be content to live off benefits instead of working, breed indiscriminately and then let their numerous offspring run wild.

Ah! We've definitely got some of those, though! :D


!
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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silver
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Postby silver » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:31 am

Bongtrees
Have you got central heating?

No... I don't need it ...I have a wood burner up in the country where I spend weekends, the house is really well insulated and has double glaze windows. I fill up the wood burner once (nights in jan, feb and sometimes march) and the house is like an oven...In the Costa flat all I have is a portable oil radiator that is only needed occasionally, some years never get out of the cupboard..the flat is south facing...my next door neighbour who is north facing uses electric central heating. I also put down large rugs on the floor during the winter months.
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jpinks
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Postby jpinks » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:37 pm

Bongtrees wrote:I dont live up a mountain but spend the same amount of money on my oil fired central heating system as I did in a similar size property in the UK.
Good grief - how hot is your house then?????
Slainte,

JohnP.

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Postby Bongtrees » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:58 pm

jpinks wrote:
Bongtrees wrote:I dont live up a mountain but spend the same amount of money on my oil fired central heating system as I did in a similar size property in the UK.
Good grief - how hot is your house then?????


It is hot all winter long but my fuel oil bills are very high.
It is a big modern detached house with cavity walls and insulation and faces South West but it would feel very cold in the winter without central heating but with solid concrete and tiles everywhere it is bound to I suppose.

We could never keep it warm enough to be comfortable in any other way.

Mike

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jpinks
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Postby jpinks » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:05 pm

Bongtrees wrote:It is hot all winter long but my fuel oil bills are very high.
It is a big modern detached house with cavity walls and insulation and faces South West but it would feel very cold in the winter without central heating but with solid concrete and tiles everywhere it is bound to I suppose.
We could never keep it warm enough to be comfortable in any other way.
Well - what can I say? I suggest you have someone check your boiler. How well insulated is your roof? Cavity walls are not the best thing in this climate, they change temperature too quickly. I hope you lay woolly rugs on the floors in winter?
I live in a small finca where the house is backed into the earth behind it, so the back wall is always at the same temperature, summer and winter. The small wood-stove I have is more than suficient for the whole house with no central heating. It is facing south with a huge terrace infront covered in vines -- leafy shade in summer, bare sticks to let the sun through in winter.
Slainte,

JohnP.

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Postby k » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:36 pm

Well done for the posters who are discussing the virtues of spain against the UK in this posting. Whilst I appreciate the input of the likes of Kevin and Frank who constantly state 'living with rose coloured specs'. Yes I am for the advice research etc, but I am surprised that whilst they say they love spain, it always 'appears' they are really slagging it off. I am amazed that they disagree with the folks who are still living here in the UK, with a current opinion, who are giving the reasons for trying to leave. Frank appears to live in utpopia and Kevin just seems like life passed him by. (As I see it )

There does not appear to be many postings here from people who are desperate to retire who have a family (so leave the 'what about work' out of it ) . I have already secured my house and land and yes I need to reform but it is not in the wilderness and the fire, heaters sufice for the winter.
But all that aside, from a family point of view, I can't wait to move out. My choice was inland taking into consideration various plus and negative points, inland was chosen for a couple of reasons by comparison to the coast , mainly the crime statistics. For the folks that have youngsters and for those that have grown ups or none at all, surely any able person who can read and research the news in the UK can see, if you had children and the choices you can make by moving to a society (not just inland spain) where almost everyone knows who you are and makes an effort to 'watch out for you' is better than where the UK is now.
I think it is unfortunate that some postings, whilst attempting to give a balanced view (rightly so) the balancing appears to be enviable/ argumentative, and that is a shame. the tit for tat just doesn't work if you are trying to balanced and experianced opinions.
Don't give me the what about your child opinion either, I have done all that for a number of years, as they say, mother now knows best.

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Postby katy » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:09 am

I think it is good that "debate" is taking place, it didn't used to happen on this site. It doesn't matter how much research you do nothing can prepare you for the shock of a spanish winter.

I probably spend at least the same amount on heating as I did in the UK, been here so long can't compare but the price of wood is more expensive than Scotland and Holland. Wood-burners are not miracle heaters, mine is a large norwegian one but it only heats the one room. Before you suggest that there is something wrong with it I have been in many other houses and their burners doesn't warm all their houses either. Unless you are VERY hardy every house in Spain needs central heating. I hate humping wood around and can't wait to see the end of winter. Also have central heating but need a really good duvet to sleep well.

When I was a student in sevilla my boyfriend invited me to his parents house for semana santa. Although fairly rich the only heating was some sort of convector heater. I slept in a jumper and jeans for 3 nights.

I don't understand what it is with spanish houses why they should feel so cold. In winter its possible to sit out some days in short sleeves but enter the house and have to put on a wooly. Maybe apartments are warmer but agree with Frank :shock: I couldn't stand the noise.


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