new breed' of criminals

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kevin77
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Postby kevin77 » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:42 am

I have some info on the 'new breed' of criminals, dane, but it doesn't make easy reading - if you are of a nervous disposition turn away now!
You have probably heard of the notorious hermanos Fernandez gang and their activities up and down the costa. 8) They are Columbian and I needed a job, so ended up as a delivery driver for them. Stupidly I nicked off work early one night to watch the England match, and falsified my timesheet. That was it, you dont cross los Fernandez and get away with it! :evil: Next thing I know i'm tied up in a warehouse somewhere near La Linea with crocodile clips attached to my knackers and wired up to the national grid. Gracias a dios - it had been raining heavily and there was a power cut that night, so I escaped with just a beating. Let that be a warning to you Dane, there are some heavy people out there.
Sleep tight. :roll:

chrisuk
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Postby chrisuk » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:13 am

kevin77, are you for real, Im sure you are but I guess you ddnt report the inccident to the police, I also guess you havnt heard of the recent arrest of some big gang down that way recently ...170 in total, the spainish police dont take nonsense when it comes to this and pride themselves on the fact that it has the lowest crime rates in the EU.

Obvious CCTV is a very strong security messure as gangs dont want their faces to become a known picture to the police, ask me as I had a neigbour from hell in the UK, worked a treat and also the local lazz abouts soon dissapeared, fact, also a roty or alsatian might be worth a consideration if you dont mind dogs, just train them not to take food from strangers out doors, its not diffcult, keep us updated n these affairs

cheers

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daneinspain
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Postby daneinspain » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:52 am

Kevin. First of all if you really did work for them you wouldnt have admitted it or announced their name. Nicked off work to watch an england match? Please, no one is that stupid. And criminals dont have time sheets.

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kevin77
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Postby kevin77 » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:37 am

Bloody hell dane, how did you suss out that I'd made it all up? :? The bit about the power cuts is true though.

frank
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Postby frank » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:37 am

chrisuk wrote:, the spainish police dont take nonsense when it comes to this and pride themselves on the fact that it has the lowest crime rates in the EU.


Certain crime rates in Spain are lower, others are higher. Murder for example, is much higher than UK, almost double the rate. In Uk, we are often accused of sending too many people to jail, but Spain sends far more people to jail than the UK, 4 times as many. Perhaps that's why some levels are lower, they are all banged up! ;-) I do not know a soul in my area that feels the need to instal security bars, security gates, employ guard dogs etc. You never see a house along the coast in Spain that doesn't look like Fort Knox. If crime is so low, perhaps you could explain why they all have to resort to these security measures. On a personal level, whilst I don't live in a large town in UK, I feel ten times safer here than I do in Spain. My neighbours lived here for many years without any problems, in Spain they've had their solar panels nicked and the car broken into. Welcome to Spain! But nice to see you're impressed with the Spanish police!


For the period 1998 to 2000, the average rate (the number of homicides per 100,000 population) was 1.7 in EU Member States with the highest rates in Northern Ireland (3.1), Spain (2.8) Finland (2.6), Scotland (2.2) and Sweden (2.1). The rate in England & Wales (1.5) was below the average. For the other countries, the highest rates were found in South Africa (54.3), Estonia (11.4), Lithuania (8.9), Latvia (6.5) and the USA (5.9).

In Britain only around 12 people are in prison for every 1,000 recorded crimes. The lowest in Europe is Sweden, with 4.7 per 1,000. Spain imprisons 48 people for every 1,000 crimes and Ireland 33 people for every 1,000 crimes.
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

Valencia_Paul
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Postby Valencia_Paul » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:45 am

I don't know where you get your figures from, Frank.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4623404.stm

frank
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Postby frank » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:38 am

Valencia_Paul wrote:I don't know where you get your figures from, Frank.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4623404.stm


They are there on the net, I'm not capable of making them up! Your figures refer to percentage of population, mine were percentage of commited crimes. Suggest you compare like with like. There is oftern contradictory evidence, it's not always exactly comparing like with like.
As you are only querying the prison rates, I take it that you accept all the other facts. I remeber staying closer to your part of the world, around Alicante, and especially Torrevieja, crime, especially breaks ins, was rife. There were loads of cases of people being done time after time. Rejas were of no use, they simply used a car jack to force them out of the wall. I've only ever had a car broken into twice, and that was in Spain, same place, same week!

Scotland's homicide rate is 2.33 deaths for every 100,000 people each year, compared with 0.7 in England and Wales. In Spain it is 1.02, and in Italy 0.96. Germany has western Europe's lowest murder rate: 0.68 per 100,000 people.

In the EU the average number of prisoners per 100,000 population (unweighted) in 2000 was 87, compared with 124 in England and Wales. But if we compare the number of prisoners to the number of recorded crimes the EU average was 17.7 and the figure for England and Wales was 12.7. In fact, 9 out of 15 EU countries had rates of imprisonment for every 1,000 crimes that were the same or higher. France was higher, Spain much higher and Germany the same.
http://www.civitas.org.uk/data/prisonRisk1950-2000.php
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

Valencia_Paul
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Postby Valencia_Paul » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:08 pm

Frank,

With respect you have confused crimes committed with crimes reported - not the same thing!

Prison population as a percentage of total population is more relevant IMHO.

I don't dispute that there are serious crime hot-spots in Spain, just as there are in the UK. BTW, my flat is a long way north of Torrevieja in a village which appears to be fairly crime free. Closer to Valencia than Alicante.

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fincalospinos
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Postby fincalospinos » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:31 pm

Frank wrote
In Britain only around 12 people are in prison for every 1,000 recorded crimes. The lowest in Europe is Sweden, with 4.7 per 1,000. Spain imprisons 48 people for every 1,000 crimes and Ireland 33 people for every 1,000 crimes.


Isnt that because:
a, In the Uk they dont catch many criminals and the crimes are unsolved

b, When they do catch them, all they get is a slapped wrist and 10 hours community service
Hardworking resident !!

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kevin77
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Postby kevin77 » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:58 pm

the spainish police dont take nonsense when it comes to this and pride themselves on the fact that it has the lowest crime rates in the EU.


In the Uk they dont catch many criminals and the crimes are unsolved


Come on now, enough of this Spanish coppers are the best in the world rubbish! :lol: Its the same with every subject now on A.com, some posters seem to have to keep convincing themselves that they made the right decision to leave yUK and everything about their new country of residence is better than their old home. :roll:
I dont know what Franks or Pauls figures conclude, and i'm not into criminal activity at the moment (well only minor stuff!) but I think it is fair to say that Spain is one of the countries in the EU where you can go about your illegal business reasonably free from hassle by one of the many police forces. Many of these 'officials' are not very well paid and are corruptable, in fact they see it as part of their wage structure. :? Having said that once you are knicked in Spain you go down for a longer stretch than you would in the UK.

lis48
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Postby lis48 » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:31 pm

Frank, the Civitas site that you quote just gives figures showing that England and Wales have a far higher percentage crime rate per population and a much lower percentage incarceration rate per recorded crime than Spain i.e. the risk of going to prison for a crime is greater in Spain but there are fewer crimes committed there. I can't find any reference to homicide rates. It just argues that there is a link between the increase of crime in England and Wales and fewer criminals being sent to gaol. Whereas the trend elsewhere in Europe is to imprison more criminals which has lowered the crime rate. Can you give us your site to support why you should think the crime rate is higher in Spain?

spanish hopes

Postby spanish hopes » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:52 pm

One of the problems in the UK is that HM Chief Inspector of Prisons and the Criminals Rights Lot insist in calling every prisoner under 21 a child.
The majority of them are mindless, vicious young thugs and some BIG mindless thugs amongst them too.
Call them what they are; SCUM!!

chrisuk
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Postby chrisuk » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:56 pm

Crime is in every country where ever you go through out the world, some are alot worse than others, not sure how others in thisregion veryclose to Malaga feel but I was told no to go to Malaga due to gangs etc, next minute anoter person comes and sees Malaga is a nice city, I guess it depends how you want to view such a town but I do know this and that it cant be anyworse than Johannesburg where I once lived...

spanish hopes

Postby spanish hopes » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:01 pm

it cant be anyworse than Johannesburg where I once lived.


So true chris, and we can't keep on letting this scum dictate terms and create no go areas, that is what they thrive on. Most of them have no bottle man to man anyway.

katy
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Postby katy » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:30 pm

I feel generally safer here but there are crime hotspots in the main tourist areas as in anyother tourist spot in the world.

When I rang Marbella police to say I thought someone was in next door, only gut feeling, hadn't seen anyone, they were there in minutes. Wasn't really crime though, it was the pine fruit pickers from Cadiz who decided to choose a nice place to kip down. The police patrol our road at least twice a day despite having private security patrols. A lot of reported crime here is also insurance fraud, suprising how many tourists on cheap package holidays have a small fortune in jewellery in their bags :wink:

Blubba

Postby Blubba » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:47 pm

spanish hopes wrote:
it cant be anyworse than Johannesburg where I once lived.


So true chris, and we can't keep on letting this scum dictate terms and create no go areas, that is what they thrive on. Most of them have no bottle man to man anyway.


Spanish Hopes, I can't help but agree with you, however, as long as you have governments and judges who are not strong enought to hand down stiffer sentences these thugs will always be around, in Brooklyn the law says that till you're eighteen you're a minor so the punishment is often not enough to deter prospective young criminals.

frank
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Postby frank » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:00 pm

katy wrote:I feel generally safer here but there are crime hotspots in the main tourist areas as in anyother tourist spot in the world.

When I rang Marbella police to say I thought someone was in next door, only gut feeling, hadn't seen anyone, they were there in minutes. Wasn't really crime though, it was the pine fruit pickers from Cadiz who decided to choose a nice place to kip down. The police patrol our road at least twice a day despite having private security patrols. A lot of reported crime here is also insurance fraud, suprising how many tourists on cheap package holidays have a small fortune in jewellery in their bags :wink:


Katy, I'd imagine yours is a very affluent area, but I'm not so sure the police would be knocking on your door a few minutes after phoning them if you lived in some run down area in the campo! ;-) The rich in this country will always get better response times, than some toerag complaining from a council estate, I'd imagine! ;-) And I still can't see why you need special security patrols, as well as a regular police presence, plus all the rejas, shutters, guard dogs etc if the place is so free of crime. Strikes me as a bit of overkill. I can't see everyone investing in all these security measures without good reason. Or are they purely decorative?
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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silver
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Postby silver » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:25 am

frank
I do not know a soul in my area that feels the need to instal security bars, security gates, employ guard dogs etc.
"your area" can hardly compare to the Costa del Sol.
the police would be knocking on your door a few minutes after phoning them if you lived in some run down area in the campo!
No thieves in the "run down areas in the campo"...
kevin77
Its the same with every subject now on A.com, some posters seem to have to keep convincing themselves that they made the right decision to leave yUK and everything about their new country of residence is better than their old home.
some posters seem to have to keep convincing others that they made the wrong decision to leave yUK and everything about their new country of residence is worse than their old home.
Some posters seem to only to post here to make negative comments about Andalucia ..is it envy? What exactly is your interest in Andalucia :?:
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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daneinspain
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Postby daneinspain » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:34 am

Ofcourse the police are more likely to respond to more affluent areas, that is where the criminals steal from not poor areas! The more wealthy people are the ones who need protection and security, obviously. Think logically before playing the "oh its so unfair the police treat rich people better than poor people" card.

spanish hopes

Postby spanish hopes » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:00 am

more affluent areas, that is where the criminals steal from not poor areas!


Completely untrue. This is the fantasy of the 'Raffles' style cat burglar who only steals from the rich.
In reality, the poor are much more likely to be robbed.
The theiving scum are lazy and cowardly so go for the easy option. The rich usually have anti theft devices and sophisticated security whereas the poor rarely do. Hence the poor are the easy targets. These parasitic low lives have no qualms in stealing from the poor, the elderly and the infirm. To them the best target is the easiest target.


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