Estate Agents, who are the honest ones?

[masterob]

jwc said

Wouldn't even waste my breath with Viva never mind give sell or buy a property through them, that is probably why they are where the are now

I don´t suppose you would care to share with us your reasons for making such a pretty sweeping statement?



Friuty said

How ridiculous is that, London estate agents only charge 3% for goodness sakes

I agree that Agents charges here are ridiculously high but, that said, I don´t think it is reasonable to compare the charges of London Estate Agents with those in this area. For a start the markets are totally different. Houses in London practically sell themselves once the Agent has publicised the sale. Therefore turnover is significantly higher. How many Estate Agents in London ferry prospective purchasers to view properties? Most will meet you at the doorstep of the house. If you consider the area that many Estate Agents over here cover and the distances they travel just showing people the properties, that adds a significant cost!

In case you wonder, I am not an Estate Agent and hold no particular brief for them. I know it is popular to "have a go" at them but let´s try and keep it in perspective. To some extent Agents are only as good or bad as the buyers they have to deal with. From experience both here and in the UK there are some very odd people wanting to buy (or maybe just have a nose) at properties. As has already been said, if I too was an Agent, I fear I would have sent some folk packing pretty quickly!

[katy]

If you have your property registered at 2% then the agents won't want to show your property as they earn less. They just wanted to get some cash flow when they introduced it (allegedly!) They are back charging 7% or more now. I know someone on 2% and they haven't had a viewing this year! I would not hand out 2 euros upfront in Andalucia especially an agent

[Fruity]

Perhaps what you say is true about London, however, this does not mean that a 7% commission fee is realistic, houses in Spain, especially the country are sought after and the prices of some of the houses here on this stretch are expensive so why should their charge be more than 2-3%? Like I said before, when houses were selling for less many years ago then the agent needed to charge 7-10% to just get a bit in their pocket, now that houses are selling for €200 - €300,000 then 7% just takes the *beep*

Estate Agents have always been labeled badly but unfortunately for the ones here they deserve this bad label, they lie and cheat but they get caught in the end, I won't name anyone but we are in a pickle with an agent right now as they are trying to get us to place a deposit on a house that has many problems and they are charging 30,000 more than the next estate agent we have dealt with and the stories that are coming out are frightening, if they didn't lie and cheat and try to scam people into buying, the process would be so much easier for all parties concerned.

I have had many dealings with Estate Agents over the last 10 years of living here and not met one yet that has tried to pull the wool over my eyes, little sneaks they are!

Fruity

[masterob]

katy

Not sure I totally follow the logic of what you say! Surely, 2% commission would be better for them than no sale?

Fruity

I doubt if Agents costs have a direct relationship to the sale price of the property as you suggest. As I said previously, travel costs must be a high element of Agents costs. In any case my experience of buying here (admittedly just the once) was that the Agent was prepared to adjust downwards their commission just to achieve the sale. You rightly don´t go into details about your current "pickle" but, if you have not placed a deposit, then surely you just walk away from the "rogue" Agent?
Incidentally, is there a "not" missing from your final sentence? Should it read:

I have had many dealings with Estate Agents over the last 10 years of living here and not met one yet that has NOT tried to pull the wool over my eyes, little sneaks they are!

[Fruity]

All I have to do is drive up the road to Coín, I don't need to get on a plane or be placed somewhere to stay while I come over and look.

No, I have not told you about our current pickle and nor will I, yes we have walked away from the agent who is lying and no I have not paid a deposit, placing deposits on houses here does nothing so why bother, it may take it off the market with the agent that is selling you the house but it does NOT take it off the market with the other agents that are trying to sell it.

And yes 2% is better than nothing, but why sell it for less than 2% when you can rip people off and charge them 10% !!!

[Campo Kenny]

I'm a bit lost on Fruitys statement re. being pushed into paying a deposit.
Although as previous poster mentioned there may be a reason that's not for posting on a public forum.

I personally have only good tales to relate about agents. The first people who we bought our first town house from absolutely stuck to their word when it came to helping after the sale.
Without them we would have been in turmoil with all sorts of things that arose whilst we were feeling our way in Spain.

Another agent who we never bought off but from same town took us to see numerous country houses. He did it with a smile and never tried to push or waffle.......the guy did it with a smile.
We eventually bought privately and confessed this to him out of good grace..........he congratulated us and said all the right things you'd expect a decent person to say. I gave him a "bonus" to take his Mrs. to a nice restaurant and had to fight with him to take it.

Also most agents I know charge 6 or 7 k to sell the house but they tell you this up front .......I don't know what the problem is really.

I still maintain I could not deal with some of the moronic timewasting dimwits I've met searching for their "ideal" nest.I reckon it's a hard job being an agent in Spain.

Kenny

[Fruity]

Well, you did good then didn't you, we all have opinions and yours have been good stories, mine have been bad, we don't have an unrealistic budget for the country property but we are finding that every agent wants a piece. When we bought our townhouse in Torreblanca the agents we bought from were great and we expected the same this time around, we have not had the same treatment and just been meeting hungry and lying agents, end of story, it's hardly my fault is it?

If they didn't lie and then get caught I wouldn't be sitting here with this knowledge.

This is what we have been through and if I could change that and say they are all great, I would. Point is they have not been and I am fed up with them

As for my statement on being pushed for a deposit, yes we were being hounded by them to pay a deposit, which we refused to do before all checks were carried out on the property by our lawyer - still continuing.

Are you confused about the deposit part? Yes this also happened to us, we bought a house in Coín with an agent, signed a contract, paid our deposit, this house was then sold to someone else via another agent, we lost out, got our money back because we didn't give our deposit to the owner but to the agent, therefore paying the deposit to take the house off the market clearly didn't work did it, the house was still on the market with someone else, in the UK most houses are exclusive to one agent so this situation never arises, here there are so many agents on every corner exclusivity doesn't seem to happen.

Perhaps exclusivity would help along this coast and in the country, much fairer on agents and buyers.

Fruity

[Campo Kenny]

Well, you did good then didn't you

Fruity, that sounded a bit sarcastic to me regarding the points I made about our experiences with the agents we've dealt with.
I don't think we did particularly good, rather we just were treated with respect and all promises were fulfulled by the agents.

Again, and I'm seriously not being funny here and this is not aimed at your comments in particular but how the hell do people get messed about by selling agents?.
If we see a house we like which is usually from a magazine/website etc. we ring the agent for a viewing.....if I don't like the person who is dealing with it I walk, simple as that.
Irrespective of agents fees for selling I'd only view properties I felt were sensibly priced compared to others, if they weren't and I thought the price was too high (but we really wanted the house) then I'd just bid them in the b@lls the way I'd do in any purchase of anything really....if offer is no good then it's Adios.

We actually bypassed the agents on this last purchase after personally rooting out the guy selling, he was Spanish and didn't give a toss about upsetting anybody and we thrashed a deal out with the lawyers to everyones satisfaction.

I'm no big wheeler dealer and possibly a bit unaware of some facts but I still find it incredible that a selling agent can cause so much grief to prospective customers, they can't make you buy anything and can't dictate a price, people can always say No!

Kenny

[Faire d'Income]

Kenny, the vast majority of them are failed salesmen who've turned to an alternative career and many of the ones in Spain are set up by people with no previous experience in the industry.

Unfortunately, they are a neccessary element of the market until buyers and sellers are willing to start transactions online. The rubbish we were shown by several agents who clearly hadn't listened to the brief, beggared belief and I certainly wouldn't use the one we bought from if I were to sell our house.

Horses for courses but I've seen more bad than good ones.

[silver]

Agencia de la Propiedad Inmobiliaria could be translated to Estate agent...but here in Spain the word agencia can only be used by APIs...does your estate agent belong to the Colegio Oficial de agentes de la propiedad Inmobiliaria check it out..if they are not API then they are just salesmen selling what they can...most know nothing of the property law...and a lot are dodgy dealers.

[spanish hopes]

Oh come on guys, there must be an honest property shark out there somewhere if we search hard enough. Anybody got a Saint Bernard?

[masterob]

Kenny, I´m with you 100% on this one. I too find it a bit difficult to understand all this aggravation with Agents. It´s not rocket science to make it clear to the Agent if he/she is not showing the sort of properties one wants and what the price is etc. An earlier posting here was asking if anyone had any news on Viva Estates and said that there had been no viewings this year! I asked myself why would someone ask those questions here rather than of Viva directly? There´s nowt as queer as folks, I guess!!

I´m trying to sell my place here in the Campo and I have had first hand experience of prospective buyers (all Brits) not knowing what they want. A classic example, a couple who had specifically asked the Agent for country properties came to view and said, in my presence, I quote " Why is there no street lighting and where is the corner shop" The Agent tactfully ushered them away before I could say what really needed to be said!

[Campo Kenny]

Exactly masterbob
When we put the townhouse up for sale (by the way I set the price and let agent stick his 6k on top) a couple came to view it.
Woman complained it had too many stairs
I bit on a leather belt to keep my mouth shut, bloke then moaned about the stairs..............Mrs. jumped in and enquired what they expected. "It's advertised as a bloody 4 story town house...........did you think it had a stanna stair lift?"

Tumbleweed blew and a lone church bell rang out..................they never bought it.
Another couple said it never had a "wow factor", I said we were having one delivered later in the week...................it does make you weep

Kenny

[masterob]

[ICCSL]

API agents were the only agents in Spain for many years until the Spanish government decided that they had too much of a monopoly. The API agent is the same as any other nowadays - they say are they are tied to 3% commission half of which is paid by the seller and half by the buyer. In my 22 years of being an agent I have only come across 3 Brits who were willing to pay half the commission. In addition the 3% is plus IVA and API agents charge for all the services they provide including any after sales. Hence if you work it out the real figure is more like 5% and possibly more.

Why are commissions so high in Spain - very simple. Of all the nationalities that come to Spain to buy, the British are the most difficult and have the highest percentage of time wasters. Imagine the scenario where a Brit comes here for a fortnight and goes out to see around 40 properties - this is not something they would do in the UK. The 40 properties are spread over several thousand kilometres and the agent, with travelling spends an average of 1.5 hours per property with the clients. After doing all of this the client does not buy because none of the areas he/she has seen meet their requirements. So in essence they have used the agent to find an area they like. There are many agents who offer location finding trips for a fee, I haven't known anyone ever want to pay for a location finding trip - it is much easier and cheaper to use the agent's car, diesel or petrol, knowledge of area etc.

The cost of these time wasters to the agent is astronomical and so that cost goes into the overhead figures for running an agency. If your overheads are dramatically increased by time wasters it is obvious why the commission rates are high. In addition, the expectation of British clients as to what an agent should do is beyond belief. After sales does not describe the multitude of tasks an agent performs for a British client. Three years or more after a client has purchased the agent still gets calls because possibly someone has turned up at the door and they don't understand what is being said to them. The paperwork involved in doing anything in Spain can be complicated, more especially if you don't speak Spanish so back the client comes to the agent - there is a long list of diverse services too many to list. No one ever expects to pay for these services.

Naturally there are some unscrupulous agents, as there are in many other countries but to suggest that only API are qualified is completely wrong. If an agency is registered it is as legal as API. Luckily, next year, it is intended that all agencies will be registered which will cut out the cowboys and those not qualified to be agents. However, I would also like to see some regulation of the time wasters that come here on a "house seeing holiday" and think it is perfectly acceptable to let an agent find the location in which they want to live. Agents sell houses, they are not tour operators.

[spanish hopes]

Tina
My heart bleeds for you and all those other overworked, misunderstood estate agents on the costas.

[Campo Kenny]

Tina, if you read back through the postings on this thread you will see that I and another chap actually spoke up for agents and the difficult job they have with "discerning" read "timewasting" punters.
I was also dismissive of people saying that agents could push them into situations, maintaining you can always say NO!

However reading your post my theory also works the other way too.
You reference a couple who will view FORTY properties on a fortnights stay.
Do your alarm bells not ring when you haven't found them their "wow factor" after the 32nd visit?
Do your reps ask the right questions to qualify people or do they just blindly take them to any location they desire?
You too can say " Enough, NO, now *beep* off!"

I ran a large car dealership years back and if somebody came in wanting to drive a Lotus Esprit V8 bi-turbo (new model at time), they'd have to give satisfactory answers to quite a few discreet questions...........if their answers did not stack up and their questions about the car were non sensical their bums would not touch seat, end of story.

I know someone will now come out with that played out story of the millionaire dressed in rags wanting to drive a Rolls and the salesman telling him to "go away" then he goes and buys one elsewhere, but stories like that are urban myths or at best very, very rare.

I think comon sense needs to be used on both sides really, without one accusing the other of not being straight....it's in our own hands.

Kenny

[ICCSL]

Well that, of course, is just the sort of useful comment which is going to progress the topic. We have had an open invitation running for a long time for anyone who thinks life is so easy for agents and all they do is rake in high commissions. Come and work in our offices for a couple of weeks.

[silver]

If an agency is registered it is as legal as API

True..but API do have to study the ins and outs of property to qualify...while the others don´t....ICCSL but I think your explanation is quite logical.

Naturally there are some unscrupulous agents

and unscrupulous clients who sometimes use agents to find a property (especially country property that is not easy to find on their own) then "go behind the agents back and make an offer "....there is a lot of good and bad to be said about both agents and buyers.

[jwc]

and unscrupulous clients who sometimes use agents to find a property (especially country property that is not easy to find on their own) then "go behind the agents back and make an offer "....there is a lot of good and bad to be said about both agents and buyers.
_________________
That is the real world it happens in business the world over, seems to me a lot of agents in Spain just want an easy ride