UK Pensions in Spain

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TerryC
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UK Pensions in Spain

Postby TerryC » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:54 am

This is a two part posting so please be patient with me. I will be a pensioner in another nine years and hear lots of rumours about what you can get and can't get pension wise, and also what you can get and can't get if you still lived in the UK when you first get your pension. I believe the situation is that if you are living in Spain when you retire you will only get the basic retirement pension with no add-ons like the winter heating allowance, Xmas bonus, carers allowance etc, etc. I would appreciate confirmation that this is the situation, which if true leads me onto the second and main point of this posting.
As far as I am concerned we are now citizens of Europe, so where you happen to live on the date of your retirement should not make any difference to what you receive in pensions and benefits. It seems to me that it is only a penny pinching scam by successive goverments to save the public purse some money and is an extreme inequity. Now this may be considered an 'old chestnut' but instead of just sitting around moaning about the situation I want to try to do something about it for all the millions of UK pensioners scattered around the world.
How do you go about changing a government sponsored scam? Write to your MP, Euro MP, the Prime Minister, start a petition? If anybody has any helpful suggestions I'd like to hear from you and see if this is a democracy or not.

Lavanda
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby Lavanda » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:04 am

Well good luck. I'm the last person to respond as I'm out of step with most regular users on this forum who, while living here, miss Boots 3 for 2 offers and M&S vouchers, think it's more expensive here than in the U.K. more crime ridden, think you don't have to learn Spanish and don't like the Spanish much anyway. Give it six months and they'll all be back in the UK moaning about it and talking up what a great place Spain is. There will be other people on the forum then who might actually like it here. Any advice from Beachcomber, Hillybilly, Peteroldracer, Country Boy, Benidorn, El Cid, Spanish Lad and Frog (for a savage but realistic view) has merit, in my opinion. They may be able to suggest something. As for me, I'm out of step BECAUSE I'M HAPPY HERE and the olive harvest starts today and we have lots of work to do, so ... see you much later.

TerryC
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby TerryC » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:16 am

Lavanda, I have lived near Antequera for seven years. I am very happy here too. However, I hate unfairness and inequity of any kind. It seems to me that if you have paid your social security all your life, and incidently I paid for 39 years and am told I need pay no more as the length of time payments are are now needed is only 30 years to receive a full pension, then I am entitled to equal to anything, living here in Spain, that an equivalent person living in the UK is entitled to. I don't believe that is unreasonable.
Also I still think it is a bit cheaper to live here and crime here is not so prevalent. I think for some reason you have developed some toxic views. I have also taken the time and effort to learn Spanish.

katy
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby katy » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:55 am

I am one of those refered to by Lavender. I would even like to see a Boots here (UK prices of course). I don't think it is cheaper to live here (could be in some areas, but as in the UK there are some places I wouldn't choose to live for a pension). I do speak Spanish (very well actually). I do think crime is getting worse here (according to reading and listening to the Spanish media). However, I did not move here to live the life of a Spanish peasant, working in the fields and pretending I am accepted and closing my eyes and ears to any negatives. I may be happier than most on here because I have lived here a very long time and chose to live here warts and all. I think some posters are oversensitive to criticism of Spain. I pay my taxes here, put money into the economy and as such I tell it as it is. There are some on here who will wake up with a bump one day...hope it's not in an olive field!

TerryC
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby TerryC » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:22 am

Er, thank you for taking the time to post replies, but what has any of this got to do with my origimal post???????
I too work here, pay my taxes and social security etc, etc but that is not what I am commenting about. There are a lot of pensioners here who have contributed fully to the UK system but are not getting all the benefits they should, simply because they retired to Spain before the normal retirement age. For instance they do not get the winter fuel allowance or Christmas bonuses. WHY?????
It is just as cold here in winter away from the coast, and Christmas is still celebrated here. IT IS NOT FAIR OR RIGHT MERELY A PENNY PINCHING SCAM PERPETUATED BY SUCCESSIVE GOVERMENTS.
The goverment gives many benefits to immigrants who have not contributed a penny to the UK and yet won't help the old and neady who have chosen to live in another EU country.
We were told at the beginning of our EU membership that everything would be equal. That is clearly NOT the case.

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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby Lavanda » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:29 am

I've sent you a PM

masterob
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby masterob » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:45 am

Terry C, why would you ask the first part of your question here? Instead of getting the correct answers you´ll get the usual emotive views such as those from Lavanda. :roll: Why not go directly to the UK Pensions Agency web site which is-

http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/

You may not like the answers you get which leads to the second part of your question. If you really feel strongly about it then, rather than raise the matter here for whatever reason, surely your solution is to take it up with your UK Member of Parliament, assuming that you have registered as an Overseas Voter.

Paula
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby Paula » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:51 am

Maybe this is worth a look Terry. I think they do some work pushing for the sort of things you are talking about. I assume it is still in action.

http://www.ukgovabusesexpats.co.uk/

Must dash, in the UK and off to spend my M&S vouchers and get my 3 for 2 offers at Boots :wink:

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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby Jool » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:19 pm

Terry, your understanding is correct, no winter fuel allowance unless you are in receipt of it (from age 60) in the UK. The only reason UK pensioners receive it here is due to the law of exportability as Sid says on another posting...........and they are trying to stop that due to sheer lack of accurate information about med weather (and less insulation in property too of course!). But I believe you should receive the Xmas 10GBP bonus.....

Bongtrees
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby Bongtrees » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:32 pm

TerryC wrote:
and incidently I paid for 39 years
have paid Spanish National Insurance for past 7 years
Will retire in 9 years time.

Started work at 10 :roll: :roll: :roll:
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

masterob
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby masterob » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:07 pm

Jool said
But I believe you should receive the Xmas 10GBP bonus.....
TerryC previously said
I will be a pensioner in another nine years....
The Xmas bonus is only paid to those who qualify which includes already being in receipt of a State Pension. Looks like a 9 year wait!

Jool
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby Jool » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:15 pm

Duh, that´s what I meant of course, but then no surprise as I´m not on Lavanda´s "worth listening to" list........... :roll:

I´ve also got that word tr...l in my head now.......

campo babe
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby campo babe » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:17 pm

I believe you could start a Prime Minister's petition, or was this just a Tony Blair thing? I have signed a couple of them myself in the past, and will try to find out the link for you in case you want to do this.

campo babe
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby campo babe » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:29 pm

It looks as though there has already been a petition to the Prime Minister, and it didn't have much support. The link is here :http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/cc6428/
It has now closed.

Paula
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby Paula » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:32 pm

Jool wrote:Duh, that´s what I meant of course, but then no surprise as I´m not on Lavanda´s "worth listening to" list........... :roll:

I´ve also got that word tr...l in my head now.......
Never mind Jool, you're in good company, lots of us were not on the list :D I think we should start a splinter group, "Tell it like it is A.commers". Frog can be President. Katy can be vice president, you can be minister for expat rights. Spanish Lad can be minister for employment or unemployment as the case may be. If Scarlet comes back she can be minister for integration and languages. Maybe I'll just be restaurant critic specialising in menu del dias. 8)

alaninspain
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby alaninspain » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:20 pm

Apart from the winter fuel allowance, now £250.00 , which is payable to all households in the UK where the resident reaches 60 years of age, and is tranferable overseas under EEC law, a full UK pension is payable to all who have contributed sufficiently in the UK. If you have never contributed to either income tax or national insurance in Spain and choose to live in Spain, why should you expect all the UK benefits. If the Spanish government have not received any previous income from new non contributing redidents, how do you expect them to finance pensions, health care, child allowance, subsidised rents etc. ? Get real.
My brain works like lightning -one flash and it's gone

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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby Jennifer » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:12 pm

Hi,
I like the way these threads go ..totally off subject ..but hay some good view points.
Lavanda, Barry and I could start the "its not all bad in Spain" thread, Shops closed on Sundays, no " 3 for 2 " offers.
We don't have to agree...Jool you're on my list, always read your posts..now I've offended the rest of you :oops:
But its good to chat...keep posting

J

Jool
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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby Jool » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:36 pm

If you have never contributed to either income tax or national insurance in Spain and choose to live in Spain, why should you expect all the UK benefits. If the Spanish government have not received any previous income from new non contributing redidents, how do you expect them to finance pensions, health care, child allowance, subsidised rents etc. ? Get real.
Where did that come from Alan? :?

This whole area is one that needs to be clearer - even Richard Littlejohn said in today´s Mail that UK pensioners "with the sense" to move abroad should get the winter heating allowance but for me there is a wider issue here....I have paid into Spain for many years yet no one can tell me how much of my substantial contributions to the spanish system will go towards my UK pension (where I also have about 29 years contributions) so I have no way of checking I actually will meet the requirement for a full State pension from one country or another......and unless I pay in to Spain for 15 years I won´t get a pension from Spain either.......the UK blithely says you will know when you reach age 65........too late to do anything about it then, so I do think there should be a set formula or some clear guidance otherwise how can those of us who choose to work in 2 countries before pensionable age plan for a proper retirement pension?

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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby El Cid » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:25 pm

Jool wrote:I have paid into Spain for many years yet no one can tell me how much of my substantial contributions to the spanish system will go towards my UK pension (where I also have about 29 years contributions) so I have no way of checking I actually will meet the requirement for a full State pension from one country or another......and unless I pay in to Spain for 15 years I won´t get a pension from Spain either?
Jool, that's not the case.

You will get a pension based on your total contributions in each country - you do not have to reach the 15 years contributions rule in Spain as your pensions are aggregated.

You will get a UK pension and a Spanish pension paid separately.

You won't get the WFA though :cry: :cry: :cry:

Sid

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Re: UK Pensions in Spain

Postby patchdog » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:33 pm

Still meandering off subject but I think the UK pension should adequately enable recipients to pay for sufficient fuel to enable them to keep warm over the winter period and so would not need to rely on handouts.
I actively avoid Brits except in forums but it would seem that there could be a bit of expat snobery in this forum. Happily I not on the list otherwise I would make comments that would get me off said list.


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