Getting Residency

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costakid
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Getting Residency

Postby costakid » Sat May 12, 2018 9:22 am

Ok, A friend has just sold his business in the UK. He has a house in Spain mortgage free and about £300 grand in there UK bank. They are thinking of moving to Spain permanently and take residence. What do they need and is it possible as they have only ever used there home for holidays. I am asking as he is not on the forum. With Brexit looming they are keen to get on with it.

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gerryh
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby gerryh » Sat May 12, 2018 10:16 am

Have a look a a previous thread on this subject
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=38313
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Gerry
Gerry Harris

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Re: Getting Residency

Postby Gasman » Sun May 13, 2018 8:57 pm

At present any EU citizen will be granted residency in Spain - apart from known criminals etc - and of course this may change after Brexit though it is most unlikely. Their problem may be in applying for health cover under the spanish health service via the INSS - there are ways and means as explained in other links on the forum and each town/office seems to have different criteria for proving that applicants have sufficient income or financial resources to qualify as not being dependant for handouts from the spanish state. Otherwise, they have their house in spain, presumably with title documents, escritura etc., after getting their residency, they will be able to sign on the local padron, apply for health care, and then think about their tax situation as they also become tax resident.
Perhaps they would be as well to take tax advice before they move rather than fall foul of having to pay tax on items that in the UK might not be liable, but in Spain would be - nightmare!

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peteroldracer
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby peteroldracer » Sun May 13, 2018 9:16 pm

On an expat forum focussed on up here in the Costa Calida there has just been a poster moaning that changing her driving licence from UK to Spanish is going to cost her a fortune....what she means is that she has been told she must register as a resident, pay taxes, take out private health cover (not a pensioner)....She did not appreciate my lack of sympathy at her being caught out as living here illegally!
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elusive
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby elusive » Mon May 14, 2018 10:50 am

At present any EU citizen will be granted residency in Spain
------------------

Only if you can qualify via everything that is needed.

markwilding
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby markwilding » Mon May 14, 2018 2:38 pm

peteroldracer wrote:....what she means is that she has been told she must register as a resident, pay taxes, take out private health cover (not a pensioner)....

You do not need to take out private health cover unless you have taken early retirement. I have always paid into the public health system here so have been entitled to access the health service free.

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peteroldracer
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby peteroldracer » Mon May 14, 2018 2:43 pm

This lady is below pension age and just seems to be a typical “why should I” case. I suspect that more and more will be teased out of the woodwork as Brexit muddles onward.
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Miro
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby Miro » Mon May 14, 2018 4:49 pm

Presumably she's been relying on her EHIC for emergency health care so far? And just paying privately as and when needing a GP? Not sure I understand the "why should I?" attitude when it's your own health at stake - unless she's young enough to still believe she'll never get sick!

Gasman's post seems to have confused two seperate issues - residency, and public health care.
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Manchesteral
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby Manchesteral » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:22 am

As an additional question on this subject can one obtain residency without being tax resident ?

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gerryh
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby gerryh » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:29 am

Yes, residency and tax residency are two entirely separate things.
If you want to stay in Spain for more than 3 months then you should become a resident.
If you live in Spain for more than 184 days in any one year then you are considered a tax resident.
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Gerry
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby Manchesteral » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:06 pm

gerryh wrote:Yes, residency and tax residency are two entirely separate things.
If you want to stay in Spain for more than 3 months then you should become a resident.
If you live in Spain for more than 184 days in any one year then you are considered a tax resident.
Cheers
Gerry


Thanks gerry, so if I take "residencia" here but stay for less than 184 days I am not obliged to proffer any details of my income, foreign bank accounts etc ?

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peteroldracer
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:32 pm

If you have the sort of money that might attract attention from the taxman you should be aware that it is not simply being here for less that 183 days in any calendar year, but that also if it could be claimed that your main business and living activities are in Spain you may be called to account. For example if your family live here it could be claimed that you were practising tax evasion. I had a filthy-rich brother-in-law who had a keen taxman move to the village he lived in, to keep close tabs on him!
The 183 days can include time spent travelling to and from Spain, so maybe don’t be too clever!
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El Cid
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby El Cid » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:37 pm

There is no longer anything officially called "residencia". You are allowed to stay in Spain for up to 90 days as a tourist. If you wish to stay for more than 90 days you are obliged to go to the National Police and sign on the register of EU foreigners. To do this you have to prove that you have adequte income and health cover. They then give you a green form/card. This is incorrectly referred to as "residencia" but that is what most people call it. It is more like a non tourist Visa. After 5 years of living in Spain you can upgrade this to one that gives you a permanent right to reside.

This has no connection with your fiscal status as a tax resident or not, as the case may be. That occurs by default once you go over the 183 day rule, but note Peter's comments above. It is possible to be resident but not tax resident if you stay for longer than 90 days but do not stay over 183. It is also possible to be tax resident without signing on the 90 day register as the 90 days have to be consecutive whereas the tax rule is total days possible in multiple visits, so, if you visited 4 times in a year for 60 days there would be no need to sign the register, but you would be deemed tax resident.

Simple isn't it :lolno: :lolno: :lolno:

Sid

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peteroldracer
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:47 pm

Even the Prime Minister has been caught out for not obeying the laws and has lost his job today, so take note!
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves

Miro
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby Miro » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:51 pm

Probably failed to correctly file his 720. Probably also sitting on the few grand I've been owed from Hacienda for almost a year now....
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

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peteroldracer
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:54 pm

Or caught by the Modelo 179 that came in today......the net is closing, bit by bit.
“THE SPANISH tax office has tightened its grip on unregistered holiday accommodation rentals.
All holiday letting websites -must fill in the new ‘Modelo 179’ information form. The order regulating the new form is focused mainly on websites, but it points out that all companies and individuals intermediating in the holiday letting activity must submit the information.
The form came into force yesterday (Thursday, May 31), although the websites and intermediaries have been given until January 31, 2019 to provide all the information concerning January to December 2018.”
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves

elusive
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby elusive » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:04 pm

Manchesteral wrote:
gerryh wrote:Yes, residency and tax residency are two entirely separate things.
If you want to stay in Spain for more than 3 months then you should become a resident.
If you live in Spain for more than 184 days in any one year then you are considered a tax resident.
Cheers
Gerry


Thanks gerry, so if I take "residencia" here but stay for less than 184 days I am not obliged to proffer any details of my income, foreign bank accounts etc ?



Personally i wouldnt take residencia unless you plan to make spain your habitual residence as even though it may say its two different cases (tax/normal resident) if you state spain is you habitual home then its also likely hacienda will presume you are tax resident aswell. Alot more hassle proving you arent tax resident when you have declared spain as your habitual residence when/if it isnt

Manchesteral
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby Manchesteral » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:27 pm

The reason I asked the question is because I now spend about 5-6 months of the year in Grand Canaria, I like being here and want to do everything legally.
I'm a long way from being filthy rich but I do have some small with a capital S, offshore funds which the U K authorities are aware of, and some property in England and I don't want to create a nightmare situation for my descendants when I'm gone, having separate wills for different countries, separate inheritance taxes etc, anyway, thanks for all the input I guess at some stage I'll need a lawyer to put all this into shape but I wanted to get some other views on the subject before I do :-)

El Cid
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby El Cid » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:49 pm

elusive wrote:
Personally i wouldnt take residencia unless you plan to make spain your habitual residence as even though it may say its two different cases (tax/normal resident) if you state spain is you habitual home then its also likely hacienda will presume you are tax resident aswell. Alot more hassle proving you arent tax resident when you have declared spain as your habitual residence when/if it isnt


Signing on the register in no way says that Spain is your habitual residence.

Signing on the Padron does say that your habitual residence is in Spain.

The tax office does not seem to look at either circumstance in regard to tax residency - they should, but they don’t seem to be bothered!

Sid

elusive
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Re: Getting Residency

Postby elusive » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:06 pm

Manchesteral wrote:The reason I asked the question is because I now spend about 5-6 months of the year in Grand Canaria, I like being here and want to do everything legally.
I'm a long way from being filthy rich but I do have some small with a capital S, offshore funds which the U K authorities are aware of, and some property in England and I don't want to create a nightmare situation for my descendants when I'm gone, having separate wills for different countries, separate inheritance taxes etc, anyway, thanks for all the input I guess at some stage I'll need a lawyer to put all this into shape but I wanted to get some other views on the subject before I do :-)

Alot of people ask about this on the C.A.B spain f.b page.maybe have a look on their for opinions etc. Imo you are just having a long holiday so you shouldnt sign on anything.people who come for more than 90 days on holiday cant be expected to sign on the list with all the rules you have to follow re healthcare etc when you are coming on an extended holiday then expected to sign off the list when you leave ontop of you cant be resident in more than one country. I dont believe for one minute that is its purpose. Its about people making spain their permanent habitual home and declaring themself as a resident here by getting "residencia"


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