crazy paving grout

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axarquian
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crazy paving grout

Postby axarquian » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:51 am

Hello all,

I am at the stage where I need to grout crazy paving that I have laid. The paving is a very whitish/yellow stone and I will have to hand grout it ( I know this will send me crazy !) as using a slurry would cause it to stain. I want a beige coloured grout, am I right in thinking cemento blanco plus a small amount of beige colourant is the correct product to use, do I just mix the cemento blanco/colourant/water without adding any sand ?

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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby Trooperman » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:34 pm

Hello. I write as a (retired) garden designer. The correct term is "point" (sorry for the lecture) and received wisdom says you should use a mix of sand (for strength) and mortar (to set it). Sharp(ish) sand is better than soft. You are quite correct in that spreading a wet mix over it, or even attempting to put a wet(ish) mix on and allowing gravity to do it for you, will result in staining. Sorry! It's a hands and knees job with a pointing trowel.

The colour of what you put in will be a product of the combined colour of the ingredients and the sand colour will have a large impact on the final result as the mix you will be using will be in the order of 4 parts sand to 1 part cement (by volume). 3:1 for a strong mix and 5:1 for a weak mix. The only way to get the colour you want is to mix little test bits and let them set, varying the amount of colour you add (if any)

I have some experience of mortero blanco as a finish on a wall, but I wouldn't think I'd use it for pointing a paved surface as I'm not sure of its strength. Maybe someone else has used it for paving? Any offers?
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axarquian
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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby axarquian » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:29 pm

Many thanks for your response Trooperman. I have tried a few sample mixes using orange/yellow sand ( the colour that is common in the U.K.) and grey portland cement and colourant. The grey of the cement 'overpowers' the other ingredients and so far I have not been able to create a light beige mix, hence my idea of using a white cement with or without additional sand.

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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby Trooperman » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:13 pm

It sounds a bit like you're convincing yourself of the efficay of your initial proposition. The idea of pointing in the situation you describe, is to create a homogeneous surface, each component (crazy paving "slabs" and infill mortar) combining to create a single unmoving/unshrinking surface as well as a pleasing effect. Presumably, if you've laid your crazy slabs on a sand, or mortar, or dry mix base over hardcore, reinforced or not, you've got joints to fill that are as deep as the slabs whatever that is, but nonetheless a significant (and important) depth to fill and with which to add strength to the patio.

There may be others on here who know exactly what mortero blanco is and, if there is already sand within it, but my understanding is that it's a fine coat (which is why it's sometimes referred to as "capa fina" and maybe with some fine sand/aggregate added) that's normally applied to an existing sand/cement rendered finish on a wall. I don't think it's a substitute for OPC.
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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby Campo Steve » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:19 am

I'm not convinced that it really matters what colour you use. Being on the ground outside it will only take a few months for the colour to change and it will end up grey.

As an example, we used black grout some outside tiles. It started off jet black. Now it is grey. Still looks good but just a darker shade of grey than if we had used a cement/sand mix.

You could spend a lot of time experimenting to get what you think is the right colour only to wonder why you bothered next year.

Also pretty sure cemento blanco wouldn't be strong enough and would end up crumbling. It's fine on walls but wouldn't use it where it is going to be walked on, even as grout/pointing.
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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:16 am

If you want a black or dark grey grout, why not use the mortar for refractory bricks - as used in building barbeques and fireplaces? It comes pre-mixed with sand etc, applies like normal "muck" (sand/cement mortar) and is tough enough to stand foot traffic I would say.
Whatever you use, have some agua fuerte to hand for cleaning off any grout that goes where you don't want it!
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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby Trooperman » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:35 am

Peteroldracer wrote:
If you want a black or dark grey grout


Read the first post! He wants beige!
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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:51 am

I have some beige high-quality grout, but it came in the boot of a car from the UK and was pricey. When I have a chance I will go and look at the trade name - you're not getting any because I need it to replace the grout round the pool edging when even this stuff gives up the ghost in a few years! :lol:
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves

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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby carrowcrin » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:09 pm

i remember a few years ago a man did work for me and he had been the resident tiler for some of the major breweries in the uk.
what he used for grout was one part of normal sand to one part of cement with no colouring and it was perfect, it is a matter for yourself but the natural look looked really well in my case and it was indoor terracotta coloured tiles.

hope this helps

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Martin Page
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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby Martin Page » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:36 pm

i think it really depends on how wide your seams are ....
If they are very narrow, Like tiles, i would use a good quality morcem coloured tile grout.
If they are very wide (in places), Id use a render mix 3 sand :1 cement ;1 cal mixed with enough water only to dampen the mix enough to trowel smooth. Making up only enough to work for about 60mins at a time. With the dampened mix .. you will rub off the excess without leaving much of a stain.

You can get INORGANIC cement colours for cement from a builders yard --- do not buy organic colours They are the ones that fade.
There is no Inorganic green or blue wothy of note
If you want a good long lasting Black .... Chimney soot is idea to add.
It will outlast bought cement black by a factor of 3, or more, times

axarquian
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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby axarquian » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:40 pm

Thank you all for your helpful comments. I have started pointing with a 3 to 1 mix of orange/yellow sand and grey cement plus a vivid orange colourant as recommended at the builders yard. This believe it or not has given me a slightly dark version of beige, and, having completed 3 sq m looks really good. Now, can anyone tell me how to remain sane while pointing the remaining 35 sq m !!!

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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby Footprint » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:51 pm

A good bottle of whisky :)
You can spend, minutes, hours, days, weeks or even months over-analyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've, would've happened - or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the f**k on.

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Re: crazy paving grout

Postby peteroldracer » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:20 pm

axarquian wrote: remain

hmmmmm - this suggests you think you are at this moment! :wink:
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves


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