Weak electricity

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olive
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Weak electricity

Postby olive » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:06 pm

Didn't know which section to put this in or whether there is an easy solution.

here goes. We live in the campo. Rusty old 35 year old transformer serves around 100 maybe 110 houses or meters (for wells) . Of those maybe 50 houses are lived in. We all have three phase electric. Thin cables on spurs from the transformer. We are the only inhabited house on our spur though one other house is occupied a few nights a week.

We contract for the max available of 5.5KW.

We have our lighting and power ccts spread over the 3 phases with only a well pump that is 3 phase. When that was installed the tech said you have two normal phases and one at 174 volts.! Nevcer mind said I as I know that the Spanish psyche is complain and you have to pay for the infrastructure to be improved. The neighbour that lives here a few days a week complained of weak electric and Endesa made him get an engineers report . the upshot was they will put in 3 phase at a cost to him of 4000 euros for the overhead cable. He is served by a spur off a pole on our land. I would wager good money he is on the single 174 volt supply but surely his tech report would have found that.

Anyway we manage but three days ago our lights all over the house went dim. TV's still work as do other socket appliances. Our UPS power back up for computers clunks regularly. Presumably because of low voltage or variations in supply. We do have power outages. usually a second or less. Generally on an hour or half hour. Microwave food that normally might take ten minutes takes over half an hour.....

Now other villagers still regard electric as a novelty and a luxury and aren't fussed about the quality or availability.

Question. (At long last) what might be the problem? I don't particularly want to go probing for voltage for example.

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Enrique
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Re: Weak electricity

Postby Enrique » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:16 pm

HI olive,
What UPS do you have.............most come with software that can monitor the quality of the supply.

When we went down to 178v the other day the White goods gave up.................and all the UPS's went on to battery mode, so we closed down for the day and picked olives...............The local Mill chased up the maintenance company and it finally came back on in the evening, he was not best pleased with their performance as it's full on olive processing up here at the moment...............
All my best learning experiences start with a problem I need to solve.

olive
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Re: Weak electricity

Postby olive » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:08 pm

Sweex 500VA

Haven't installed any software that it might have had but great suggestion. Can't see any for download off their site either. I might have the original software disc somewhere. edit. Have found Sweex driver disc but it is for Win2000 and XP_

No businesses here. The most complex bit of kit in the village after an Ipad will be this old Sweex UPS.

Just had a thought I have an old Belkin UPS somewhere. I can see it taking me a whole day to prove what I already suspect- the voltage is too low.

When you say your white goods packed up......... What happened?

TorreDelAguila
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Re: Weak electricity

Postby TorreDelAguila » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:57 am

Electricity supply in Spain is governed by EU regulations, which stipulate a European standard of 230v +/-10%, which means between 207v and 253v.

At voltages below 210, heating appliances can be expected to be sluggish. Below 190v, and certainly below 180v, electric motors (eg those in refrigerators) might not startup and rotate, but simply hum/buzz/hammer and overheat - in other words, sustain damage.

UPS/SAIs will cut in at various voltages, depending how they are set up. They are no substitute for a proper mains supply. You can check your own mains voltage with either a professional test meter, or you can easily buy plug-in meters at most good electrical shops.

Your electricity supplier is required by law to provide and adequate and safe supply, and regular low voltages are not adequate or safe. You should inform Endesa (or whoever) of the situation, and ask them to resolve it. If the supply to your house already exists, but has become inadequate because of additional properties being added (with legal supplies) or because of ageing equipment (like transformers or cables), then it is the responsibility of Endesa etc. to repair and upgrade it.

For an existing domestic installation, which has not been substantially altered or enlarged, your responsibility as householder starts after the meter (unless you happen to own that too, in which case you should not be paying an 'equipment rental' on your bills). Everything up to and (usually) including the meter is the total responsibility of the electricity company, and maintenance is their responsibilty, not yours. You are already paying for this, through your electricity billing.

We have had exactly the same low-voltage difficulties here a few years ago. Cabling and transformers were replaced, and the situation rectified, at no cost to consumers. Supplied voltage is currently (no pun intended) 230v, which can occasionally dip to 220v on high demand.
Chris

olive
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Re: Weak electricity

Postby olive » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:12 pm

It reverted to normal voltage last night at 5.55 p.m. Joy having bright lights etc again.

I am going to canvas other villagers over time and then get our village "alcalde" to make representations if it is a wider problem.

It came back to normal voltage at 5.55p.m. last night and then, despite not having bad weather here, we had maybe 12 power outages in the evening.

I am wondering if being an insignificant village, the grid staff use us to shed load? Given the bad weather elsewhere even as close as fifty km away they must have had problems with high demand.

I take your point about it being the responsibility of Endesa to make sure the infrastructure is good to the meter but I have plenty of evidence that the customer pays to upgrade in a rural situation. The neighbour with the weak electricty has to pay 4000 euros to Endesa for five spans of overhead supply to be changed from single phase to three phase just so he can use his well. Another villager had a supply put in for his well on the condition that HE changed the wooden pylon to a metal one. It looks daft in the long row of wooden ones.

TorreDelAguila
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Re: Weak electricity

Postby TorreDelAguila » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:23 pm

Endesa often try to swing costs of improving infrastructure, however small, on to customers, when they can. Needs resisting.

In the case of the neighbour wanting to go from 1ph to 3ph, that is a significant upgrade request by the customer, and it is not unreasonable IMO that Endesa charge for it. Maybe he should have opted for a single-phase pump, if cabling etc permitted.

Where an existing system simply fails due to age or inadequacy, and where customers are simply asking for decent existing service, then Endesa should be doing whatever is necessary at their own cost.
Chris

olive
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Re: Weak electricity

Postby olive » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:33 pm

Just to clarify. We all have three phase electric not to power heavy current equipment but because that is the norm in the campo. We have four twisted overhead cabling on the poles. It is slightly thicker than bell wire. The neighbour wanting a stronger supply is probably on the minimum KW you can contract for. When it was connected that would have been quite adequate for a TV and a few ceiling lights. His standard well pump takes ages to pump water- I have seen it. That is why I would wager he is on the 174 volt phase. Whether it is still and always like that I cannot say. So to provide him with moreKW say the maximum of 5.5KW he has to pay for the overhead to be upgraded to 4 core/3 phase from two core.

TorreDelAguila
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Re: Weak electricity

Postby TorreDelAguila » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:51 pm

Understood.
Chris

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peteroldracer
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Re: Weak electricity

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:06 pm

Sideways move on the thread but I have read on a social media page that Endesa have put the price of electricity up today by 33%.....
I cannot find any kosher information about this - anyone know more about it? If true, they should certainly be providing a third-better service rather than a third-rate one!
I used to cough to disguise a [email protected] I f@rt to disguise a cough.

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gerryh
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Re: Weak electricity

Postby gerryh » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:18 pm

I received an email from them yesterday. Here is part of it:-

Nos ponemos en contacto contigo para informarte que las subidas del precio de la luz de las que se está hablando los últimos días no afectan a tu tarifa de mercado libre con Endesa.

If my translation is correct it seems to say that although the price has gone up I will not be affected.
The full email is here :- https://endesa.salesmanago.com/email/me ... ac&smlid=0

Cheers
Gerry
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Fincaman
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Re: Weak electricity

Postby Fincaman » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:00 pm

We had much the same problem when living in a remote spot near Algarrobo, also with a 3-phase supply. In this case it persisted for many months with almost daily tripping-out. Repeated complaints to Endesa were either ignored or replied to by saying there was no fault. In the end our local internet supplier with the same problem searched every pylon and found an illegal connection which intermittently shorted. Endesa must have known, unless their checks were made by someone with very poor sight, but even then they were reluctant to get involved at first, until more pressure was applied.

Also, when we moved into our finca, all our bills showed zero consumption. I checked the meter and found it was not moving. So, like the honest guy I am, I told the local office. Yes, a new meter was fitted... but they charged me 60 euros for the privilege.
Restoring an old finca near Colmenar.


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