Community Internet via the TV

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Miro
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Community Internet via the TV

Postby Miro » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:50 pm

Does anyone know how this works? We have a presupuesto from a company called Tecnovision in Malaga for the installation of a system "para la transmisión de datos a través de la red existente de teledistribución de TV (por cable coaxial) para disfrutar de servicios de internet en la toma principal de TV, previa instalación individalizada de un módulo de datos con carga a la vivienda que lo desee...".
The quote is for a "módulo coaxdata redes", which apparently is a bit of kit attached to the existing communal TV aerial (€450), and then each owner only needs to buy a router of some sort (€255) that connects to their TV line. The community will have to pay a monthly fee for a line (what line? not sure), which split between all owners would be very little.
Never heard of such a system, don't understand how it works and don't quite believe it - if it sounds too good to be true.....
Can anyone explain it?
Thanks.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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markwilding
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby markwilding » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:13 pm

Is the community as a whole looking into having this installed?
This could be cable. Most communities would have some sort of system to split the signal from the terrestrial aerial to every house through a coaxial network.
As cable would enter the building from underground, maybe a whole new network would need to be created.
Having said that, my local cable company have been able to feed the coaxial cable directly into my house through existing tubes for movistar but if you live in a flat, it might mean having to have cables on the outside of the building and the community might not want that, thus the need for a new feed.

Miro
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby Miro » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:15 pm

It has been proposed as a community installation, that all the owners will then be able to benefit from, just by buying an individual "router" of some sort. No new cables, it uses the existing cables for TV. There will one monthly fee to the community for internet of something like €45. Sounds to me like this is a landline with broadband, which is then split, via the TV aerial somehow, which obviously is already connected to each apartment. The individual router connects to your TV socket.
My feeling is that we could do without any extra communal facilities - there's enough arguing over the existing ones. Furthermore, if this system is as simple and cheap as it sounds, why have I never heard of it in any other community?
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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pete_l
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby pete_l » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:25 am

If you already have a TV distribution, phone line and internet it's difficult to see what the advantages are of this new system.
If this is "cable TV", like we had in England in the 90's (installed by Telecential, who then when bust, bought out by NTL who were then sold to Virgin) it supplied the 3 essential services of TV - including *some* satellite channels, two phone lines and an ADSL-type internet service. I believe that "cable" is more popular in the USA where apartment blocks were built with TV distribution systems and this was seen as a way for the local internet monopoly to provide connectivity on the cheap (cheap for them: not for the users).
However cable-TV does have limitations. The number of channels you can push down a cable - is limited (though with most systems these days moving to fibre, that limitation is less important) . Though you are still limited to only having the TV that the cable provider has negotiated for, which may not be the ones you want.

Unless there's a big reduction in what you'll be charged monthly for these services, or that your existing system needs an expensive overhaul, it doesn't sound like there are any advantages to this rather old technology.

Miro
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby Miro » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:58 am

I'm not explaining this properly - my fault, I know, because basically I don't really understand it. It is NOT cable TV. It has nothing to do with TV, except that the internet service is distributed to each apartment via the existing cables connecting each apartment to the TV aerial. As far as I can make out, the community will contract a line with ADSL service (from whichever provider we choose), and the community pays the monthly charge (say, €45, split between all members - peanuts). This "módulo coaxdata" will then split the incoming ADSL down the TV cables into each apartment, where each owner will have a router (paid for individually, €255) that connects into the TV antenna socket (presumably it has an output to then re-connect the TV)

The saving for each individual owner is that once they have paid for their router, they have NO further internet charges - except through their community fee, but that will be a tiny amount anyway. We have been assured that there's no data limits, and the speed will be the same as we get now (up to 10Mb). The setup I have at the moment is working fine, and I can afford it, and I believe (especially in Spain) if it ain't broke...Furthermore, I have Movistar Fusión, so I'd have to change my landline and mobile contracts, and then see how much I'm actually saving.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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El Cid
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby El Cid » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:05 am

If you are all sharing one 10mb connection you will get nowhere near that speed unless you are the only one using it.

€255 for a router sounds very expensive - Movistar give them out for free.

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Miro
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby Miro » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:30 am

The "router" is presumably not a standard kind of router - for a start, the input has to be coaxial. As for the speed, I wold have to assume that the bit of kit that's attached to the TV aerial is some sort of amplifier.

The fact that nobody else here so far has heard of such a system, let alone have one in their community, is telling me my suspicions and initial impressions were correct! :crazy:

Anyone else?
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

markwilding
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby markwilding » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:53 pm

Still sounds like cable to me. I have it and it comes into the house via coaxial cable.
My router is connected by coaxial as well.

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Colinm
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby Colinm » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:45 pm

seems to me that its just turning your tv distribution system into a LAN (local area network) for internet signal distribution, using co-ax cable instead of cat5 cabling.
the community will still have to pay for the internet connection. You would need a very high speed connection (depending on how many users are connected. Is there unlimited broadband available? You would need to check the contract with the Internet supplier to check if the community is permitted to re-distribute the signal.
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Miro
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby Miro » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:35 pm

I think you're right, Colinm, about the LAN. Good point about checking with the ISP on whether the signal can be re-distributed, too. Is it possible that the kit they are suggesting could amplify the signal somehow, so that everyone will still get the same speed?
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

El Cid
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby El Cid » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:14 pm

No way at all. You can only get so much data down a cable.

It's called "contention" and happens all the time. It's one of the reasons that connections in the UK are notorious for lower than advertised speeds as they often put too many users on the same node at the exchange.

An amplifier may be necessary to ensure that the signal strength is maintained but it can't increase the speed.

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Miro
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby Miro » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:03 pm

So, are you saying that if the community have a 10Mb contract, there's no way that each of the owners (there's only 12) would get anywhere near the 8.5Mb or so that I get now with my 10Mb contract, by sharing via some sort of LAN? This "módulo coaxdata redes" they want to install costs around €450 - it must be for something?

Edit: Just found this: http://www.televes.com/es/catalogo/producto/coaxdata-200mbps-hdtv

Edit2: and these https://www.televes.es/sites/default/files/01030364_000_es-en-ru.pdf
https://www.televes.es/sites/default/files/768973_manual_de_usuario_000_es-en.pdf (says there's a problem with security certificates - I opened them without a problem :? ) Having browsed through these, it seems such a system exists / is possible. But I wonder about the security level for each individual user (slave, to coin their phraseology!) I suppose each slave unit can be set up with its own password much like a standard router, but even so, you're still sharing a master internet service with others; how secure is this? And I can find nowhere where it assures me that the incoming internet service of, say, 10Mb, will be transferred to each "slave" at the same velocity.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

pete_l
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby pete_l » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:23 am

I completely agree with Colinm, this is just substituting one method of distributing internet for another. The key difference is that everyone's locked in to the same ISP. There's no particular security issue: you'll still have your own firewall on your computer and anti-virus, and no-one will be able to see what you're downloading :wink:
However, look carefully at the contract. Can you withdraw (without huge penalties) if the service is poor - or if your whole building doesn't get the 10MBit/s you've contracted for (ISP usually say "up to ..." which is weasel words for "less than" :thumbdown: ). What's the minimum contract period. Personally, I wouldn't go for this. The savings (if there are any once you've paid for all the extra kit you'll need) don't seem that great. You're also sacrificing flexibility to change your ISP or upgrade you own connection if you ever wish to.

Miro
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby Miro » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:59 am

If we went for it, it would basically mean I wouldn't have to pay for ADSL, as the one line would be paid for by the community ( naturally I would be paying my share through my community fees, but this would amount to very little)
I currently have Movistar Fusion; I pay about €50+IVA a month for my landline, mobile and ADSL. If I canceled that and had just a landline (with the same free calls as currently) and the mobile (with the same data/calls etc), I'd have to pay about €30. So after paying €250 or so for my slave router, I'd save around €20 per month. The savings wouldn't kick in for a year or so. For me personally, I totally agree with you with regards to future flexibility to change provider, the issues around potential problems with the service we contract etc., and am not interested. Thanks for your input.
There are a few tight-arse5 in the community who think any amount of hassle (for somebody else to deal with, of course) is worth it to save €20 a month, so it's good to have as much info available as possible in order to explain one's position! If they go for it, I shall opt out and under the terms of the horizontal law, I can't be forced to contribute.
:)
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

Stoker
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby Stoker » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:22 pm

Hi Miro

Was this system ever installed and how did it perform? I'm interested as a similar system is under consideration for our block but based on a 300Mb/s fibre optic line.

Miro
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby Miro » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:29 pm

No, we never did go for it, and don't know of any other community that has it. Sorry, can't help.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

Stoker
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Re: Community Internet via the TV

Postby Stoker » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:37 pm

Okay Thanks anyway.


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