25 YEARS OLD

Information and questions about driving in Andalucia, buying or importing cars and motorbikes plus legal issues surrounding taxes and licenses.
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country boy
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25 YEARS OLD

Postby country boy » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:28 pm

My Range Rover will be 25 years old this year. He is my friend, I've had him for 22 years and I intend to keep him. He is Diesel and has impeccable emissions .
I do all my own maintenance and am fully conversant with his most intimate parts, so nothing frightens me ( I am a marine engineer by training).

My question is I hope simple; the new regulations coming into force this spring in Spain designed to purge the environment of older, diesel powered disgraces..... If ones car is up together and meets all the rules surely there is no reason to be concerned? I presume there will be provision made for vehicles made before a certain date? Is there somewhere I could read all about it? Would perhaps registering him as "old", vintage or veteran, never remember which is which.

All comments gratefully anticipated.

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby El Cid » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:37 pm

I haven't seen any details of any proposed changes - can you enlighten me please.

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:40 pm

The stricter emissions test is detailed in this link that I posted a few days ago:

https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2017/11/08/ ... -12841.pdf

In more understandable language in item 3 here:

https://www.elperiodico.com/es/motor/no ... tv-6374905

It includes plugging a machine in to the diagnostics port (I can't find one on my 30 year old Suzuki which I plan to keep as well although it does have a petrol engine) to make sure that the onboard computer hasn't been tampered with. I don't think they will be able to fail a vehicle just because it hasn't got an onboard computer.

Country Boy, don't forget to apply to your Town Hall for an exemption from the municipal vehicle tax.

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby GerryinCajiz » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:42 pm

I believe that the ITV stations are going to be equipped ( by May ) with new computerised testing equipment which will be able to access on board computers to check all is working as it should be and not the visual check of the lights on the dashboard as is the current practice. This will impact mostly on older diesel vehicles according to the article I read.

PS Teresa has nothing to do with it! :x
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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby El Cid » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:54 pm

Thank for the link Beachcomber, I must have missed that. What was interesting was the mutual recognition of other country’s MOT/ITVs. Does that mean that a UK car kept in Spain could use a Spanish ITV to tax it in the UK?

Sid

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby Enrique » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:40 pm

Hi,

" Does that mean that a UK car kept in Spain could use a Spanish ITV to tax it in the UK?"..........that would only work if the ITV/MOT databases where linked....?
"
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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby El Cid » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:04 pm

Well, the link states that an ITV in one country is valid in another. The data bases are irrelevant as, in theory, you could apply for UK tax with a Spanish ITV certificate. Incidentally, the Spanish police already have online access to the DVLA database and know if a car is taxed and MOTd. Whether the UK have access to the Spanish database, I don’t know, but it would not surprise me.

Sid

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby Enrique » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:24 am

Hi,
Maybe I'm missing something here.......... :?:

" The data bases are irrelevant as, in theory, you could apply for UK tax with a Spanish ITV certificate"

When you tax a UK car online it references the MOT and Insurance Databases .

Taxing a Car in Spain the Provinces handle issuing the demands and they vary in amount.
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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby El Cid » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:53 am

Yes, that is what happens at the moment, but when foreign MOTs are mutually recognised that might have to change - that's my point

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby ajtg1952 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:24 am

My Discovery 200 is also 25 years old this year. I have to do a lot of tweaking with the fuel pump and the usual removal of the air filter to get it through the ITV. Fortunately I normally get a sympathetic tester who perseveres till he gets a decent emmision reading. This may be the end of the road! Pity, I love that car.

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby wollie » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:19 pm

Beachcomber, is the document you linked a European directive and is it available in English?
I think it may be the Spanish interpretation of same but it be great to see in English as way beyond my Spanish.
I have two 30+year vehicles and be interested in anything in this area, i get the impression here that they are changing the emissions on older vehicles?

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby Beachcomber » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:42 pm

The first link is the full text of the Spanish law and the second is an article in the motoring section of a Spanish magazine.

Here is a brief summary in an English language magazine:

https://www.soltimes.com/2017/11/spanis ... to-change/

The main thing about the emissions seems to be that they will connect to the vehicle's onboard computer (if it has one) to make sure that it does not have software that has been manipulated to disguise the real emission reading. There is a list of emissions parameters in the BOE link but I don't know how they compare to the current requirements. I have asked the Spanish mechanic who checks my exhaust emissions before each test if he can have a read through and let me know what he thinks.

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby wollie » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:23 pm

Beachcomber thanks for that.
Interesting just this lunchtime i see on the news that the German national government have voted to allow Cities in the regions to ban diesel cars from being used therein.
One of the things it referred to was that co2 emissions are 20% lower but the toxins in the fumes are really much more dangerous and have properties related to causes of cancer. It likely be all over the news this evening to get us thinking the right way.
The Germans are the principle makers of diesels and are now banning same, what next !!!

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby El Cid » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:03 pm

It’s no different to the same plans in the UK. It only applies to old diesel cars, not the new ones.

Now that the UK High Court has decreed that the UK are not doing enough to combat pollution, the same will soon happen in a number of UK cities.

The French have similar plans and Spain will follow.

Sid

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby chrissiehope » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:00 am

Sid, when you say "old cars, not new ones" - how old is old ? My diesel car is 5 years old, so is that old, or new ?
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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby El Cid » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:14 am

It will probably be based around the existing EU emission ratings. Currently the Euro 6 standard is pretty clean and applies to car registered after Sept 2015.The problems will potentially affect the earlier cars. The Euro 5 came into effect Jan 2011 and Euro 4 in Jan 2006.

Using the current situation in London, Euro 6 cars should have no restrictions for the foreseeable future. Recently they introduced an additional Toxicity Charge on top of the congestion charge. This applies to pre Euro 4 cars. in 2019 it will apply to pre Euro 5 cars.

Your car is likely to be Euro 5 so I think you may have a few years to go before it is affected.

Whether proposed new restrictions in various cities and countries will be similar remains to be seen. The Paris scheme will ban all cars by 2020 which are not Euro 5 or 6.

Sid

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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby Trooperman » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:27 am

Connecting to the onboard computer will show, not only software divergences from the manufacturers' original spec, but disconnection of devices such as the EGR. How do I know? I've got a fault code reader and it shows that my EGR is by-passed! But it comfortably passes the emission tests!
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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby chrissiehope » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:54 pm

Thanks Sid - that's one problem I can forget for the time being ;-)
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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby TorreDelAguila » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:02 pm

The diagnostic kit is going to have to be hellishly comprehensive to be able to cope with the huge variety of both socket variations and interrogation differences between manufacturers' models. Then there comes the complication of the operator actually being familiar with the diagnostic software each manufacturer uses, and how to read it. Commercial workshops can struggle to afford and cope with all this (although the ITV network obviously has a generous budget).

My guess is that some vehicles will get quizzed, and others won't. Will be interesting to see how it rolls out. One thing I will be doing is running my own diagnostic just prior to the test, and clearing down any archived faults.
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Re: 25 YEARS OLD

Postby Devils Advocate » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:42 am

I think reading the section 3 on Beachcombers link this will be aimed mainly at DPF delete on diesels and Cat removals in general.

There is a booming business with people providing this service openly even even though its illegal to run without. Checking has up until now been done by eye but it's so difficult to spot a DPF that's been tampered with, ie drilled out or cut and shut whilst the actual can remains there.

I'm all for it really and don't think it will affect older vehicles that much as they'll simply be subject to the probe in pipe method if an OBD2 port can't be found. That's how I read it anyway.

I wonder how this will effect remapped cars? I'm guessing if emissions are withing parameters then no problem.
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