Leish and progress in UK

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tjtops
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby tjtops » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:04 pm

Hiya...your vet will be able to tell you but I would suspect you do -- unless you're VERY high up in the mountains. The injections you mention are the new vaccine I suspect (CaniLeish), but you MUST have the dog tested for Leish first, to make sure it is negative at the moment......the vaccine won't work otherwise and may even harm the dog (not so sure about that bit tho -- I'm sure someone will put me right!) :)
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby Jool » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:55 pm

CAnileish vaccination is available in vets in Spain NOW and another vaccine against leish was released on Fevruary 10, 2012 - no details yet

Protocol is

Blood test to check dog is NEGATIVE - it is dangerous to dog if you vaccinate a dog with leish as it can re-activate the disease
First injection
Wait 3 weeks
"nd injection
Wait 3 weeks
3rd injection

Cost around 200 euros for all the above

Thereafter one annual booster - about 40 to 50 euros

Some vets say the vaccine is only 70% effective but its not been tested on dogs in real life settings of course so experience will hopefully tell us more soon

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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby Technobear » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:37 pm

the glossy flyer by virbac about the vaccine
http://www.virbac.es/p-virbacespubes/im ... one_PO.pdf

so, sounds like its 9 weeks, before fully vaccinated.

has anyone spoken to a vet yet?
i wonder if its it safe for them to wear a scalibor collar in the intervening time?
can they have at the same time as other yearly vaccinations?

i guess best idea, is to get down there asap... (aghh, my dog hates vets!)

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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby tjtops » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:01 pm

Has anyone heard of dogs in the course of being treated with Milteforan who have exhibited fairly rapidly-spreading sore patches on the body (seemingly random)? My poor little mite is now on day 14 of her treatment and for the last 5 -- 8 days these have been getting larger (large areas of hair loss, small red spots, small scabs etc;) only occasionally itchy.... ongoing nightmare. She's off for biopsy and scrapings tomorrow......thing is of course UK vets don't see Leish very often... :(
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby Campo Steve » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:46 am

We were at the vet yesterday as one of our dogs has Leish and has a nasty ulcer on his nose. Our other dog doesn't have it, as far as we know.

The vet advised us that we can now have the non-infected dog vaccinated. Costs as follows at her practice (Competa, Caleta and Puente Don Manuel):

Test for Leish - €35. If the test comes back as positive then dog cannot be vaccinated. If negative, continue with vaccination.

3 injections at €40 each.

That makes the total €155 but if the test is negative and vaccination procedes then they will only charge €120 i.e. the test will be free.

One booster jag per year required after that, presumably €40.
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby tjtops » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:30 pm

For information.....results are back and the sores etc etc probably ARE a reaction to the Milteforan.......(hyperplastic dermatitis and arteritis, for the technical)...so....has anyone else had experience of this??
Good news is there was NO evidence of any Leish organisms .... :wink:
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby Campo Steve » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:58 pm

Back to vet today so that our leish infected dog can give blood to check his leish levels. We await those results. In the meantime his nose has improved greatly following an antibiotic injection last week.

The non-infected dog had his blood test for leish and it was negative. He has now started his course of vaccination injections. We have to monitor him in case he has a reaction, it being a new injection. She did recommend continuing with the Scalibor collar rather than relying totally on the vaccination as "nothing in this life 100%."
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby tjtops » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:25 pm

In the meantime his nose has improved greatly following an antibiotic injection last week.
I've read several times recently (in various places) that treating Leish-infected dogs with antibiotics is NOT recommended as apparently it can stimulate and awaken dormant Le4ish organisms......... :shock:
And please.....has ANYONE heard -- or not heard??-- of allergic reactions to Milteforan as I described in my post....????
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby Campo Steve » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:48 pm

I've read several times recently (in various places) that treating Leish-infected dogs with antibiotics is NOT recommended as apparently it can stimulate and awaken dormant Le4ish organisms.........
I wasn't aware of that but I think it depends on the antibiotic. Some strains of Leish in humans are treated with modern antibiotics. I can't remember the name of the one he was given but the vet did say it was the only way of stopping the nose problem worsening, and it seems to have worked. Had it continued to spread he would have lost both nostrils and then he would not have had a future. It remains to be seen if his Leish levels have been affected. We will get initial results in a couple of days with full results next week. At least he has a chance.
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby tjtops » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:59 pm

Totally 'get' that....how I wish there was a cure for this terrible disease......all the very best. I just can't believe that the drug which is supposed to save her life is having such an awful effect on my poor little girl......
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby Campo Steve » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:09 pm

It is dreadful. I find one of the hardest things is not being able to explain to them what is happening. At least they can recognise your love for them. Fingers crossed it all works out OK for you.
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby tjtops » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:13 pm

Thanks Steve....you too.... :)
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby tjtops » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:27 am

OK...mixed results! Has anyone had experience of Milteforan NOT working?? 5 weeks after the end pf the treatment and the skin eruptions have calmed down somewhat....but not entirely by a long chalk, and it's almost as if the actual irritation is increasing again?
Drug company eventually decided that the dogs' sores WEREN'T due to reaction (quelle surprise! :crazy: )...but said they looked like 'typical Leishmania' skin condition........fact that the dog had NEVER had eruptions etc as bad as that before is beside the point, obviously....
It's all such a worry and of course the vets over here (UK) just haven't had the experience with the disease. Have to say tho that my 'former' vets in Alhaurin have been great with their email support..
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby FionaR » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:00 am

So many issues have been raised in this thread. Its difficult to know where to start.
1stly, dogs that have been diagnosed in Spain with leishmaniosis and then go to the UK will always have leishmaniosis. However if kept under control with medications it will be to a varying titre. The disease will never go away. The good news however is that there are now lots of treatment options. The glucantime injections are the cheapest but also quite old fashioned and very hard on the body. We have known dogs to die during this treatment. This treatment is also with Zyloric tabets. Or there's the Milteforan, which is much more expensive but much better tolerated. Then...... there's a new drug just been released here in Spain called Leisguard. (Domperidona) This can be used to increase the dogs immune system and prevent any symptoms of the leishmania getting worse, and keep it under control, and can also be used on dogs negative for leishmania to increase the immune system and stop them from contracting the disease! (phew... you keeping up?!) This is an oral medication 4 times a year to be given daily for 1 month at a time. Fairly inexpensive too. (15.50€ for bottle)
Humans can contract Leishmania but normally only immunosuppressed people. Also it can be cured in humans.
Humans will not contract the disease from their Leishmania infected dog. Only via the sandfly.

Canileish is the new vaccination, as explained by people in this thread. However after the 3 vaccinations in the 1st year it will only give approx 83% protection. This does increase after the 2nd booster the following year to over 93%. This means that you also need to continue another form of protection in the 1st year (Scalibor or Advantix)
Concerning the original question about the dogs returning to the UK.... as long as regular leishmaniosis treatments to keep the symptoms under control are given, then dogs can lead a long and normal life. Also routine biochemistry blood tests should be done just to make sure that all liver an organ values are within a normal range.
Hope some of this is a help to you.

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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby Campo Steve » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:00 am

The glucantime injections are the cheapest but also quite old fashioned and very hard on the body.
I am wondering in what way the glucantime injections are hard on the dogs body. Our dog has two injections to go of a 30 day course, combined with Alpurinol tablets. After that he will go onto another tablet although not sure what that is, possibly Domperidona. According to the latest findings as discussed at a conference about it in Malaga last month, this treatment is proving effective in reducing leish quite low levels. We do know it will never go away.

In the meantime, he is back to his perky old self, has regained the weight he had been losing and the ulcers on his nose, lip and tongue have disappeared. He is showing no sign of it being hard on his body. Quite the reverse in fact. Maybe some dogs react differently.

Meanwhile, our other dog who tested negative, has had his three immunisation jags and wearing his Scalibor collar. The only effect he has shown was lethargy for 36 hours after each injection.
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby tjtops » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:47 am

Fiona...many thanks indeed for the highly informative reply. I am intrigued by the mention of domperidone.....chiefly because I recognise it as the active ingredient of 'Motilium', the anti-nausea pill you can buy over the counter!!! :wtf: How does this work, then? And what sort of dosage/frequency is recommended for a dog (per kilo bodyweight)??
I've just come back from my English vet and (partly on advice from the Spanish vet) he's put my dog on a course of steroids and antibiotics, so we'll see what this does......
I'm also interested about your comments ref Glucantime......I also heard or saw somewhere that the parasite can build up a resistance to it?? (Again, this dog had Glucantime on and off for more than two years...no ill effects but in the end, it didn't appear to keep the Leish under control, hence going down the Milteforan route.....which now I'm not so sure has worked either! :roll: )
I so hope the vaccine proves effective (for other dogs, obviously) although of course this horrible disease will never be eradicated because of the large numbers of infected campo dogs roaming around....
Glad to hear your boy is doing well, Steve :clap:
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby Campo Steve » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:41 pm

Thanks tjtops.

Just remembered that before he started his course he had a full blood test and his liver enzymes level was slightly raised so he is on a pill for that whilst he is on the injections. Presumably he has to have this as the injections need properly functioning organs.
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby tjtops » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:35 pm

Well...sadly I have to report we lost the battle with my beautiful 5 year old dog (the one who had ALL the treatments). I very sadly decided to say goodbye to her last week after she had endured every treatment possible and the only thing keeping the ulcers (which were affecting her eyes and her breathing) at bay were steroids, which of course are not a solution.
I am still in absolute bits, but am posting this to -- hopefully -- help anyone else in this situation not to have false hopes raised.....RIP beautiful Lady. Such a brave, loving girl. You are so sadly missed.
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby chrissiehope » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:34 pm

Oh tj - I am so sorry - how sad for you after all you both went thro :(
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Re: Leish and progress in UK

Postby tjtops » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:41 pm

Thank you xxx it's very hard.... how I wish someone would find a cure for this terrible disease....
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