Leish symptoms....

[oliveview01]

Sadly this week our refuge had to have a young dog put to sleep, she had been fostered with a family. She is the sister to a dog we are ´fostering´ (you know, just for a few weeks, that turn into forever!) Our dog had to have an operation on his femur head, the bone had died. The vet had said it can be hereditary. The sister had started to show the same symptoms, lame on her back legs (not just one like our dog) She was x-rayed and seen by a bone specialist, who just happened to be at the vet the day she went for her x-ray. They could find nothing wrong at all. She went back to her foster family and was fine, then started to struggle to stand (not all the time) she then went to another vet to be x-rayed etc. Nothing could be found wrong with her spine, joints anything. Apart from the lameness now and again she was fine. This week the refuge got a call to say she was very poorly, she had not eaten for 3 days, had very runny poo and was being sick all the time.
We collected her from the foster home and took her to the vet. We were shocked to see the condition she was in, she was skin and bone, her fur was matted , her skin very flakey, her eyes dirty and her nose had scabby bits inside. We were horrified how bad she was. She just sat in our car and did not move. The vet said he was 100% sure it was leish- it was. She was seriously ill, her organs were infected, so we took the decision to have her put to sleep the day after the results came back.

It has set me wondering- I have been looking on the internet today for leish symptoms in dogs and it mentions joint pain and another said problems with the spine.
Apart from the on/off lameness she looked a healthy little dog then suddenly went downhill fast. Have any of the dogs belonging to A.com members that are/have suffered from Leish had problems with being unable to walk or similar?

She went from looking in excellent condition 6 weeks ago to the very ill dog in such a short space of time

[ValL]

So sorry to read about this poor dog. Several vets have said to me it is very difficult to diagnose Leishmaniasis, other diseases have the same or similar symptoms. I believe it needs a series of blood tests to confirm.

My little Scallywag was fine till just after the first tick we found on her. Then her back legs were stiff then she went off them and her food and was by the end of that year very ill. A month and on antibiotics and she recovered. She has had 2 bouts since, both treated with a month of antibiotics. She was tested for a host of diseases the last time and the only negative was borderline brown tick disease. The surgeon who operated on both her legs said at the beginning of her ops he was near certain it was Leish which was why he wanted blood tests done to see what was causing her articulation problems in all joints. I had always said it was brown tick, her vet said they can build up immunity to it over the years and she does seem to be having less thankfully. The surgeon is still saying he would not rule out Leish, although she has none of the more serious symptoms of it. She healed well after the ops which was one thing he said might be a problem if it was Leish and he would not have been happy to the ops.
I do hope it is not Leishmaniasis she has she is healthy wee fighter and is enjoying running again especially now the heat is cooling down.

[Donz.]

the trouble is early symptoms can be very difficult for the average person to see. It is only when they start to get obviously ill that many people notice and by then the disease can be quite advanced.

Also different dogs show different signs. Though treatable in many cases, sometimes it's too far advanced and a kinder option is to let them go.

Being as there are several forms of the disease this is why symptoms can vary & can take several years for there to be any noticeable issue.

Weakness, listlessness, intolerance to exercise, and loss of appetite are usually some of the first signs. Dependant on the area, some vets don't recognise these as Leishmans indicators and try to treat for other problems.

We get our dogs bloods tested annually in a bid to catch any problems very early

[rafiki]

the trouble is early symptoms can be very difficult for the average person to see. It is only when they start to get obviously ill that many people notice and by then the disease can be quite advanced.

Vets round here are now recommending a vaccination against Leish. Do you know if it is effective? It is quite expensive.

[Donz.]

personally I haven't given vaccine - for me coming from a pharmaceutical background, I don't feel there was enough clinical trials on it for me to warrant giving it to my dogs who are my 'world'.

For other people they may be happy with it - that's ok

It is not 100% effective - it is still recommended to wear a Scalibor collar (which is also not 100% effective) plus it is an annual booster for the vaccine.

Also the vaccine can't be given to a dog that already has some forms of Leishmans, though for a Leishmans positive dog it is recommended for them to continue to wear a Scalibor as they can continue to be further infected

[rafiki]

Thanks for the info Donz.

[Anntonio]

Vaccine in the UK is around £150 for the course.
Will be getting Cassie, my cocker, done before I return. I lost Willow, another cocker to this awfull thing, and yes she had to have several blood tests before the vet could be sure. The tests had to go to Madrid and in all it cost more than 500 euros.

[rafiki]

Yes, sounds about right. As I understand it the first year it is three vaccinations costing about 45€/50€ per jab around here then a booster each year.

[oliveview01]

We have just adopted a dog we were fostering (the brother to the little girl who was put down due to Leish) About a month ago I noticed a few ´scabs´ on his head, by his ears, he had had 2 ticks the week previous, we assumed the scabs were from the tick, as they were where the scabs were. I had brushed his fur, it is curly, and the skin on his head started to bleed, I thought I had scraped his head with the brush, it is a wire one, a bristle one does not go through his fur. Then 2 nights ago I discovered he had a rash on his stomach, so the next day, yesterday, we took him to see the vet. The vet took a skin scraping and looked under the microscope and said he was sure it is Leish A blood test has been done, we get the results tomorrow. I am gutted, he is a fabulous little dog, has gone through such a lot in his 18 months of life. Being found living in a drainage ditch beside the main road as a puppy, along with his Mum and sister, then having a big operation on his leg, recovering from that, now probably has Leish.
Tomorrow we find out the result and if positive another test to find out how bad and then see what is to happen. Some people have said that the initial treatment is a kind of chemotherepy and the dog is in great discomfort/pain, and it is better to have them put to sleep. This little chap has worked his way into our hearts, I would hate to have him put to sleep, but if he would be suffering I would do what is best for him, not what is best for us.
I hope some of you can share your experiances with me and help me decide how to go forward.
Thanks

[oliveview01]

Our little man has Leishmania, but the good thing is his kidneys are not affected, only his skin, his kidneys are perfect.
The vet said the skin samples taken are so good, they have never seen such clear, perfect leishmania slides, so early next year our little man will be famous,, his slides are being used at a big seminar about leishmania in Barcelona!!! He had lots of photos taken too

[Gasman]

Hi Oliveview - so sorry to hear about your little chap, and after the traumas you had with his sister too!
We have two dogs, one our own posh highly-bred female german shepherd (straight back), one mastin cross who we fostered, and YES couldn't let him go elsewhere so adopted him. During the summer inspit of negative routine blood tests for Leish when he developed eye problems, then a crusty nose ... the vet finally took one look at him and his developing skin sores on his ankles, the well-crusty nose and continuing eye secretions and said "that looks like Leish" so he sent off for an expensive DNA test which came back very positive ... no-one can explain to us to this day why the blood tests were falsely negative! So for the mastin it was a case of injections under the skin over his shoulders for a 5 week period - 3 weeks of injections, a week off, then the final week of injections, and a continuing dose of Allopurinol.
The change in that dog has been amazing - we were ready to write him off as he went thin, with a skull-like head, and sores all over him. But after his treatment this 5 year old lazy mutt has transformed into a puppy-like bundle of fun and vigor. The treatment and all the blood tests came to around 700 euros but for us it was worth it!
However, the next part of the story is not quite so encouraging. A month ago our GSD suddenly started vomiting and went off her food. The vet immediately was able to do tests to show kidney disfunction, and yes, her blood test was positive for Leish. So this time, with no exterior symptoms, just the kidneys affected with the system upset caused by the Leish, we were able (we hope) to get treatment started while she was in the early stages. However because the kidneys were affected she couldn't have the injections and had to have Milteforan instead - a very nasty liquid - for 28 days. Kidney treatment helped initially with the vomiting, but as soon as she came off it, the vomiting returned and the blood chemistry showed the kidneys still need help. The vet is fairly confident that when the Leish levels and antibodies etc return to normal that the kidneys will be able to get to normal.
I do hope so because she does not like the Royal Canin Renal diet food she is on!!!! It really is a struggle to get her to eat it - and meanwhile have no extra proteins, avoid phosphorus (bones!!), avoid potassium (bananas) and no salt .....
However - the bottom line is - if you can afford the treatment, or if your insurance will pay don't give up on your dog with a diagnosis of Leish - the recovery can be amazing and a joy to behold.
I hope all goes well for your little chat!!!

[oliveview01]

Our dog is on day 14 of the treatment, his skin has improved, his rash has almost gone. He is much more sociable with the other dogs, it makes me wonder if he has had it the whole time we have been fostering him, 8 months, or a little less.
Once the scabs have gone he will get a haircut, not long to go.
He now lays alongside the other dogs, before he would jump up and run away, I think we have the wrong dog!!

[gus-lopez]

glad to hear he is improving.

[oliveview01]

We were woken by a sneezing dog coming into our bedroom at 5.20 I put the light on to discover him covered in blood, he was having a nose bleed, there was blood sprayed everywhere!
We spoke to the vet, our dog is now to take vitamin K
Oh well, two steps forward, one back!

[gus-lopez]

Oh dear, sorry to hear that.