My dog has drawn blood

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fyfin
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My dog has drawn blood

Postby fyfin » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:56 pm

Well when I say my dog, technically it's my wife's dog. I have posted previously as she has leish but this is an entirely different problem.
She is not good with strangers so I always warn people not to stroke her just in case she snaps at them (she is around 6 years old and we have had her for 3). She has bitten 4 people now and very unpredictably i.e no warning growl although she does do that sometimes but not on these occasions. In fact I was on the receiving end once, even though she and I get along really well and I have taught her a few tricks, it was actually while she was doing the roll over trick that she suddenly lunged at me and bit my hand looking extremely vicious whilst she did it.

Another time was when the Satellite TV man called and she was playing with him when he was holding her cuddly toy so he thought he was OK and so petted her and she rewarded him with a bite but luckily caught his watch strap instead. She looks really vicious when she does this.

Today I took her out to a local bar, and a friend who she knows, sat at the same table and while I was videoing some friends playing their music he stroked her and she suddenly turned and bit him quite nastily on the finger, leaving him bleeding quite badly. He is a good friend and made light of it using tissues to wrap around it but I was quite upset.

I thought she was getting a bit better but this latest incident has really worried us and my wife has threatened to have her put down.

I thought maybe we could just make sure she doesn't get to meet anybody, but that might be difficult so I'm in a bit of a quandary. She appears to be such an angelic little dog that people can't resist trying to stroke her and I was really shocked when she bit me.

I know no-one can advise me what to do but I just feel sad that it has come to this. We've had dogs before and never had this problem but she was a rescue and maybe that is why she was left at the shelter.
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby gerryh » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:33 am

A simple quick solution is a muzzle particularly for when she is outside the house and will be amongst strangers.
An animal behaviourist might be able to cure her problem.
Having her put to sleep is the ultimate solution if all else fails.
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby Enrique » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:05 am

Hi fyfin,

"She looks really vicious when she does this." + "very unpredictably "

Having seen what a similar dog did to my Daughters face...........I'd go for Gerry's third option ASAP.
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fyfin
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby fyfin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:46 am

She looks so angelic that people can't resist going to stroke here although I always warn them but was distracted this time. Yes, you're right, my worry is that a small child will get bitten and in fact when I was at the Farmacia and my wife was holding her on the lead a child came out and put his hand down and she snapped but didn't bite him or at least didn't draw blood.

It's just such a shame as we've had her for 3 years and I thought she was improving. She won't bite visiting tradesmen so long as they ignore her, in fact postmen etc just walk in and she barks but leaves them alone. It's always when someone puts their hand down, yet as I said, it's unpredictable and seemingly random i.e. no provocation and no warning that she is going to do it.

My wife is adamant that she will take her to the vets to be put down but I know how I felt when our 16 year old labrador had to be put down just from old age and many problems. I was an emotional wreck as you get very attached to a pet as I'm sure some of you will know.

We have a soft muzzle for her from a previous time, but I suppose another solution is simply not to take her don town - we have plenty of campo and tracks to walk on. I met a bunch of friends this morning with their dogs, including the wife of the man she bit, and no-one wants us to have her put down but it will be my wife's decision, depending on how she feels when she gets up this morning.
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby Wicksey » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:06 am

There is a highly recommended animal behavourist in the Nerja area but probably too far for away from you Fyfin. We have a cat like your dog and she can turn and attack for no apparent reason. She was a rescue cat from the pueblo as a 5 month old and we always presume that something in her past life has caused her to go into attack mode. She's 17 now and we've put up with her all these years but unlike a dog, is at least confined to our own home environment. I would have thought a muzzle when she is out would be a help to at least stop the risk of her biting someone.

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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby fyfin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:09 pm

Well, she's had a reprieve as my wife couldn't do it in the end. I refused to have any part in the decision. Now, we will not take her into town, only out for walks in the campo where she can be off the lead.

This should make sure she doesn't get the opportunity to do it again.

The strange thing is she has been letting different people stroke her with no issues lately and although I have always warned them, some people decide to go ahead anyway. I would have felt better about this time if I had had the chance to warn my friend.
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby jhonie99 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:21 pm

TBH, you're being an idiot!!

Who's the pack leader? Why are you allowing people to touch your dog? It's not a toy!!

Be more assertive and ORDER people not to touch your dog. If they have a problem, tell 'em to F off.

Yes, I agree with walks in the countryside without interference from nasty humans.

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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby Pamela1 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:31 pm

I realy dont know what to suggest but it seems your dog thinks she's the boss so to speak...you can stop taking her into town with you as a solution to protect others who try to make a fuss of her, or you can chose to still take her with a muzzle ...the problem is she has bitten you and may do so again or next time it could be your wife!! ...I don't think either of you will be nasty humans to deserve to be bitten...

jhonie99... :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby White Horse » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:50 pm

Are your hearts ruling your heads?

I owned a podenco from when he was a puppy and he was a lovely dog. I brought him back to England when we returned, although he occasionally limped and was obviously suffering joint pains.
After some time in the cold weather, and visits to the vets to get Metacam he was laying in his bed moaning in pain. That upset us to see him suffer.
He got very grouchy and one day when we had visitors he turned on me in the garden and bit me really hard. We have grandchildren and the next day I decided the risk to them was too great. We took him for a last walk in a beauty spot before taking him to the vets to be put to sleep.
When I explained what had happened to the vet, they had no hesitation. It was so sad, but so necessary.

The fact that your dog has Leish, means you are already paying over the odds to keep your man's best friend alive. But she has become volatile, not only with strangers, but with you in your own home. I would with reluctance have the dog put to sleep.
Ask yourself why you are keeping her alive. Is it because you will be upset that she has gone - that is natural, but you are delaying the inevitable and putting yourselves in danger of injury.

It's a really hard decision. I don't envy you both the decision.

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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby fyfin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:15 pm

Thanks for comments - there is no way Susie thinks she is boss. Obeys commands and is submissive to both me and my wife. 99% of the time she is well behaved and causes absolutely no problems. It's just now 4 times in 3 years that she has reacted unpredictably with no warning. As I explained I always warn people but this time when my friend sat down I was using my phone to video our friends plying and I didn't see that he was putting his hand down to stroke her when she was under the table.
She is perfectly healthy apart from leish which in fact doesn't cost much at the moment as it's only allopurinol tablets we give her. She only weighs 10 kgs so doesn't need a large dose.
I'm glad my wife has decided not to have her put down and with precautions it won't happen again.

I don't know if this will work but here's a photo http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q33/fyfin/Susie/IMG_0264_zpsa41e10d0.jpg
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby Gasman » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:17 pm

She certainly looks cute and a live-wire on the photo.
The biting episodes seem to have been spread out randomly over the time you have had her, so I doubt it is something simple like she has a bad tooth or a pain in the head that causes her to lash out (though this may have been why she bit YOU on that one occasion). I suspect that she is really fear-aggressive. This means that certain people, or certain actions give her such a fearfulness that she immediately goes into attack-mode. Another dog would just scuttle off and hide (flight-mode) but she is of a different make-up and goes straight into BITE and GROWL and think about it later ... You could try to find the trigger that sets her off, but we have had a dog in foster which had a similar problem - we never did find out what set him off, but he went from us to a trainer who was a specialist in animal behaviour and apparently did very well - because he went off for adoption, we couldn't follow up but the Rescue group said he was fine there.
Advice to consult a well-respected trainer is a good idea. Meanwhile why don't you continue to take her into town but with a muzzle on. You should let her wear the muzzle around the house for a week or more, off and on, and with treats, and also on the fun walks into the countryside - before you take her into town, so she gets used to it and does not think it a punishment. When she is comfortable with it, go into your favourite bar (you will probably find that most people seeing the muzzle, will not approach anyway) and if anyone puts their hand down to her, she may show the panic attack but at least she cannot do any harm. If you see the panic attack coming on - goes rigid, whites of eyes showing, backing off - snap her lead and distract her - perhaps get up sharply and walk away. She needs to know that you are in charge, and that you will take her out of what she sees as a dangerous situation.
We did have another rescue for foster for a while and that one only attacked if you put your hand half-way along his back - ooops instant panic and biting and growling! As long as you did not approach that area, he was the most lovely loving hound you ever came across!! Again as a precaution he went off to a specialist trainer too.

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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby Unicorn » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:50 pm

You can get a spray for a collar that is operated by remote control. It sprays citronella or just water and distracts. May be worth trying out.
I used one for an over-friendly dog and it did work.........

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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby fyfin » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:32 pm

Gasman as usual great advice. Unfortunately she gives no warning whatsoever when she does it and it's very infrequent. We will simply take more precautions now and do long a no-one puts their hand down there is no problem anyway.
Unicorn , none of these would work as there's simply no warning at all. One minute you're stroking her and she seems happy with it and then snap.
As I said only about 4 times in 3 years so not a regular occurrence and no idea what triggers it so difficult to treat.
We'll see how it goes with the new regime.
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby Gasman » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:56 pm

Hope all goes well for Susie under the new regime. Dont be afraid of using the muzzle in public places - it certainly slows over-friendly cuddlers down when they see a muzzle. Try the soft one but remember not to leave it on too long at a time, especially in this hot weather, as Susie will find it difficult to pant etc!!! The rigid open-basket-type ones are better for that but more intimidating and less comfortable in general.
If anyone asks if she is a DANGEROUS dog (little cute thing as she is!!) because she has a muzzle on, just say that she doesn't like people petting her and leave it at that. You may not need it - you will find that less folk actually want to pet her! - but better safe than sorry, and at least that means she can still go out with you and socialise, but without being groped!
"she seems happy with it, then" - she may not actually BE happy with it, but is putting up with it, up to the point where she snaps - literally!

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fyfin
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby fyfin » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:10 pm

So far so good and we have explained to friends etc about the unpredictability. Most were amazed that it happened as it's a small town here and we usually take her with us so we are known to the regulars at the local bars etc. It has certainly had an effect after you tell people. Even our friends who looked after her when we were away for 3 weeks were slightly cautious when we visited them yesterday. They have just come back for a 2 week holiday as they recently moved back to UK.
However, apart from that we haven't been down town with her and in fairness it's just too hot at the minute anyway.
You're probably right as well, she'd tolerate it until suddenly had enough maybe.
Anyway, so far so good as I said and thanks for support.
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby Gasman » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:19 pm

:thumbup: :clap: :wave:

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Martin Page
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby Martin Page » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:38 pm

You Know what you Have to do .....!
4 is 3 too many ....what happens if the next time (and there will be a next time) its a Childs Throat
sorry

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fyfin
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby fyfin » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:22 pm

Really! I don't need to respond to that but I will. She will not be near a child without a muzzle. She doesn't attack and keep attacking. She takes a snap at someone putting a hand on her admittedly and then stops immediately so going for a child's throat is rather dramatic. Yes 4 times in 3 years but this is the first time she actually bit and drew blood, the rest were more snaps.
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Martin Page
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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby Martin Page » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:29 am

I have no axe to grind ...I don't Have Children and have had many dogs. There are no Bad dogs ...only Bad Owners. You have placed a thread on a forum soliciting advice, You don't need to respond because you know what you have to do.

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Re: My dog has drawn blood

Postby elusive » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:29 pm

Muzzle is the easiest answer. It solves any potential problems and is a warning to people about coming for a random stroke. I would have used one from the begining.


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