civil partnerships & rip-off Britain

[Miro]

Been enquiring about forming a "pareja de hecho", a civil partnership, so that my partner and I can be treated as a married couple for IHT purposes in the event of either of us kicking it. Pretty straightforward - at the town hall today they told us we'd need a certificate of civil status from the British consulate, plus the usual ID docs etc. Rang the Consulate - no problem, come before 11:00am and you'll get the certificate while you wait. Here we go.........€143 EACH. Just checked the website. Here is an example of what Britain charges €143 for: http://ukinspain.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/7550878/civil.status.certificate
How do they sleep at night???? That's more than the cost of a passport, for God's sake.
Done a bit more checking, and reckon if we were in the UK we could do it all for 100 quid. (Then I suppose we'd have to get it translated....)

[alig99]

Miro, I don't understand why its rip-off Britain (again), given the exchange rate 100 quid is 110 euro and translation costs are around 60-100 quid or euro! I think thats more than the 143 euro you mentioned. Some things in Britain are more costly than in Europe but be assured there is definately european organisations making lots of money (ripping-off) on lots of things in Europe, lets start with cars, food, clothes, white goods to name but a few, which are more expensive in Europe than the UK !! Good luck wherever you get your documents. ali

[Julie]

And in Britain you wouldn't be paying the same amount of Inheritence tax, Spain just collects taxes in a different wat then the UK.

[Miro]

Point entirely missed, I think.

alig99 - €143 per person. This is for a certificate stating our civil status, so that we can then go and form a civil partnership at our local town hall. I don't know how much that costs itself, but the £100 I quoted was for a civil marriage in the UK, which with a legal translation would be valid in Spain.
What galls me is that they can charge so much for this:

A QUIÉN CORRESPONDA
Yo, , en la provincia de Madrid
certifico que en el día de hoy se ha personado en este Consulado el ciudadano británico
XXXX, nacido en XXXX el XX de XXXX de XXXX titular del pasaporte británico número
XXXXXXXXX, expedido en el Reino Unido el XX de XXXX de XXXX, quien ha declarado
ante mí bajo su responsabilidad que su estado civil es el de XXXX, (delete where
appropriate no habiendo contraído matrimonio con anterioridad).
Y para que conste y surta efecto, firmo la presente en el Consulado Británico de XXXX,
a XX de XXXX de 2009.

At least a British passport is a proper document, with photo and God knows what other info now contained in it, good for 10 years as ID and valid for travel throughout the world. This certificate, on the other hand, is just a scrap of paper which, for me, will have a useful life of about 5 minutes.
So, sorry about the (unnecessary) jibe about rip-off Britain, I was just feeling incensed at what the UK consulate charges for things like this.

Julie, IHT is a complex issue, but I'm fairly certain that if I can bring myself to fork out €143 (EACH!!!!) and register a civil partnership in Andalucia, neither of us will be paying any when the other one checks out. So, at the end of the day (no pun intended), it's probably worth paying it - even though it will be begrudgingly.

[julian]

maybe it would be cheaper just to check-out at the same time...I think Gordon may be able to help with that, he is organising some checkout do on another topic, not sure what he is charging though, maybe you get a discount for a "double leap".

[Retro P]

I dn't understand why some people whinge about anything, everything costs something for gods sake

[Miro]

If only we were all as wealthy as you presumably are, we would never ever even dare to question how much someone charges for anything, ever again, either. €50 for that coffee Mr. Bar Owner? Why certainly, Retro P tells me everything cost something, for God's sake, so of course I'm delighted to give you whatever you want, my wallet is open for anyone to help themselves.
Jeez, forgive me for having the audacity to suggest that perhaps this service may be just a tad overpriced, I didn't realise I was in such a minority feeling slightly ripped off when someone clearly charges me way over and above the cost plus a reasonable fee for services rendered.

[Jool]

Miro, you are not alone, I also think it seems very pricey, but, as I understand it from my conversations with the consulate here about a pareja de hecho certificate some of this cost covers a visit to the Notary as well.....I suggest you ask them for a breakdown of cost as it is definitely more than just issuing a piece of paper.

Still seems expensive though I agree, but cheaper than getting married I think!

[Jool]

PS - the info I received from the Consultate was that you need the following before the Pareja de Hecho document can be issued

You need - a certificate from a Justice of the Peace stating you are recognised as a couple

A certificate from Town Hall mayor saying you are regarded as a co-habitating couple by them

Copy of your padron showing you are on it as a family unit and not as individuals

NIE numbers

Passports

I last checked this a few months ago, you never know it may have been simplified since then but I would suggest you check just in case.

[Miro]

Thanks for that, Jool.
When I spoke to the consulate in Malaga, they told me they close at 1:30, but if I get there before 11:00 there would be no problem issuing it there and then before they close. No mention of a trip to a notary. I think the consulate's stamp is legal enough?
We have up to date padron certs., and the town hall gave me a list of requirements - basically this Certificate from the consulate, passport or residency card, padron, and a couple of simple forms to complete. When and if we get it done, I'll post back here with details - including cost, for anyone who actually gives a toss what they pay for things!

[Retro P]

Miro, apparently you took my light hearted comment a touch seriously, can you honestly say that 143 euros is a considerable amount, by todays values it's really nothing is it, considering you expect to gain peace of mind, I presume you chose to live outside of the UK, you cannot therefore expect things to cost the same as they would in the UK.

[Miro]

€143 is neither a considerable amount nor an inconsiderable amount on it's own. Only in relation to what it's being charged for can one ascertain whether it represents "value", which in this case it clearly does not. QED.

[Retro P]

Can I ask how you have arrived at the conclusion that this service which you apparently need is overpriced, for example have you done a cost analysis on the progressive stages this item will clearly require?? As I said previously 143 euros is neither here nor there, a decent night (not even special) out for one!
If you have assets (paid for) you wish to protect on behalf of your "partner" then 143 euros is a pittance

Funerals are also expensive, nobody whinges about the cost though!

[katy]

What you have to understand is that the figure will have to take into account the cost of employing staff to deal with all these legalities. UK staff need accommodation costs, pension contributions etc and local staff aren't cheap.

I whinge at the cost of funerals

[julian]

there is no limit to what can, and will be ,whinged about here...funerals included !! I seem to remember a thread about the cost of funerals!

[Julie]

We like to whnge, it makes us feel alive !

[Miro]

If you have assets (paid for) you wish to protect on behalf of your "partner" then 143 euros is a pittance

By the same token, they could charge €1,430 and it would still be a "pittance" by virtue of the fact that there is no cheaper alternative. Doesn't mean you have to be happy about it, but fair point about paying whatever you are forced to, to protect your assets.

have you done a cost analysis on the progressive stages this item will clearly require??

You are having a laugh, surely? You're not by any chance a retired politician? Perhaps I should also do a "risk assessment"? Maybe form a "quango" to discuss my options? Then bill the taxpayer for wasting time and money when a simple application of good old common sense would have sufficed.

Funerals are also expensive, nobody whinges about the cost though!

I've never heard anyone exactly pleased about how cheap they are, either.

143 euros is neither here nor there, a decent night (not even special) out for one!

You clearly move in different circles to me!

[Lavanda]

Miro, I hope you and your partner will have a long and loving life together.

[Retro P]

If you have assets (paid for) you wish to protect on behalf of your "partner" then 143 euros is a pittance

By the same token, they could charge €1,430 and it would still be a "pittance" by virtue of the fact that there is no cheaper alternative. Doesn't mean you have to be happy about it, but fair point about paying whatever you are forced to, to protect your assets.

have you done a cost analysis on the progressive stages this item will clearly require??

You are having a laugh, surely? You're not by any chance a retired politician? Perhaps I should also do a "risk assessment"? Maybe form a "quango" to discuss my options? Then bill the taxpayer for wasting time and money when a simple application of good old common sense would have sufficed.

Funerals are also expensive, nobody whinges about the cost though!

A very fair response Miro, I wasn't having a dig at you personally, just the fact that everyone whinges about something (with me it's shotgun shells and 30.06 caliber rifle bullets), but no matter what they'll still charge us, I too hope you have a long and happy life together (at least then you'll get value for money for your piece of paper

I've never heard anyone exactly pleased about how cheap they are, either.

143 euros is neither here nor there, a decent night (not even special) out for one!

You clearly move in different circles to me!

[pigs-might-fly]

(a) 143 Euros is a considerable amount of money to many of us ( just over 23% of my last state pension payment).
(b) I would not in my wildest dreams consider that 143 euros is the cost of a "night out".
(c) This rip-off is quite in line with the similar one for issue of a U.K. passport, here in Spain.
(d) Funeral costs ARE a rip-off, both here and in the U.K.

[Mariposa]

Does anyone know if the Pareja de Hecho certificate if issued in Spain has any validity in the Uk, and if having one means that a couple will get the combined uk state pension for example? I know that the major advantage in spain is the health benefit if one partner is not retirement age, as well as the inheritance stuff, but would they lose any pensions in the uk they were entitled to as a single person?

[Miro]

I doubt that a "parejo de hecho" registered in Spain is valid in the UK, but your best bet is probably to ring the UK consulate in Malaga and ask them. (We were there today and I must say that Consul Stephen Jones and his staff were so friendly, helpful and polite, that handing over a large wad of cash for virtually nothing didn't feel too bad after all!)
As for the pension question, bearing in mind that in order to register as a pareja de hecho, you need a certificate from the consulate stating that you are single (or divorced), and that since registering as a pareja de hecho is not the same as a marriage, I can only presume that your civil status will still officially be "single" anyway.

[Julie]

So Miro, whns the big day ? i take it we are all invited

[Miro]

You already missed it. Filled in a couple of forms at the town hall this morning. 5 minutes, no charge, done & dusted.