Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
El Cid
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby El Cid » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:09 pm

You will find more information on the AEAT website.

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby elusive » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:40 pm

Thanks cid ill have a look

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby elusive » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:32 pm

Ive looked at the below in the F&Q but im struggling to see if the info im looking for is there. Sid or anyone else could you please give a little help. The board F.A.O says you only need to declare a life insurance policy if it only pays out on death. Ie you arent getting anything out of it while still alive. Does whether it has a cash value/surrender value make any difference to that as mentioned a few posts back?


http://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.in ... 014_.shtml

El Cid
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby El Cid » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:39 pm

I can’t find a specific link, but a life insurance policy that only pays on death can hardly be described as an asset as you will be dead when it pays out.

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby elusive » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:41 pm

Thanks sid. I did a google and this came up which is as detailed as i can find

Theres a life insurance bond where it says the surrender value is classed as the asset and i presume has to be declared if the value is over 50k. *edit* seems an insurance bond is different to a normal monthly payment one. You pay a lump sum and the investor plays with it ala the stock market

Then it says life insurance policy if its over 50k has to be declared.so whats the difference between a bond and policy? A policy is something that is already been paid out in some way? And the surrender value i guess is for a policy that hasnt been paid out yet so you are gaining nothing

Then it says a policy with no surrender value doesnt have to be declared at all.

https://www.spectrum-ifa.com/model-720-reporting/

So for eg i have a life insurance policy that pays out on death and also has a surrender value of less than 50k then you dont declare it??
Last edited by elusive on Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

El Cid
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby El Cid » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:15 pm

Personally I have never heard of a death policy that has a surrender value. That’s not to say that they don’t exist but I haven’t seen one.

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby elusive » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:28 pm

Ok thanks. The policy im asking about is a life insurance one that is paid into monthly and is paid out on death but it also has a surrender value which is no where near 50k. (the full payout on death isnt much more than 50k)The questions for a friend so i guess there must be standard life insurance policies that have a surrender value/cash value incase you ever needed to cash it in.

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby Terry Tibbs » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:34 pm

I hesitate somewhat to raise the dreaded subject of pensions and the Modelo 720 and I expect Sid will be less than ecstatic to see it mentioned again, but...

I'm in the process of reviewing my pensions generally and wanted to check up on the consensus here (if such a thing exists on this point) regarding the requirement or otherwise to declare pension policies. Over the past day or so I've re-read the salient parts of this thread (a couple of glasses of Rioja helped) and I think I have a pretty good handle on what's been discussed so far.

I've submitted 720s (or rather my asesor has, on my behalf) for the years since I became resident in Spain (2014) and up to now I have not included any of my pension funds. This has been on the basis that I have yet to reach retirement age, so I have used Sid's comment in his excellent FAQ article as guidance, namely...

El Cid wrote:Occupational final salary pensions, the UK state pension and personal pension pots yet to be converted to a pension do not need to be declared.

My pensions comprise two paid up (defined benefit) UK company pensions, a SIPP and an older 'personal pension plan' that I'm probably going to transfer into the SIPP. A potential complication is that one of the company schemes was closed and moved across to the Pension Insurance Corporation a while ago. Whilst the paid up defined benefits remained identical, the documentation that the Pension Insurance Corporation sent me has the following wording emblazoned on its cover page: "This is your Annuity Policy." If I leave this policy unchanged then I will not receive any pension payments for another five years, but the question in my mind is - since this is now 'an annuity', do I need to declare it? I note the following conversation on this thread from 2015, which seems relevant:

MikeNew wrote:How does one arrive at the value of an annuity that has not yet commenced payment?

For example I have a small annuity that was purchased years ago when the company I worked for went belly-up. I am 63 and the payments

(approx. £4000 per annum) are due to commence when I am 65.

El Cid wrote:That's an unusual situation. Strictly speaking, if it has not yet started to pay out, it doesn't need to be declared (just

like a personal pension pot).

If it was paying out 4k now it would be valued at less than the 50k threshold so you would not need to declare it.

I would not declare it.

Sid

So in my case, would it be correct to say that I have no need to declare it, even though its value is over €50k?

And I assume the same (still) applies to my SIPP and older 'personal pension plan', neither of which have yet been converted into an annuity or produced any cash benefit?

Unlike in previous years (where my overseas assets changed significantly, requiring submission of updated 720s), I have no other reason to submit a 720 this year. I have also asked elsewhere for advice on this matter, but I'd be grateful for any thoughts that the fine folks here might have. There seems to be more collective wisdom on this forum about this topic than anywhere else.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby Terry Tibbs » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:42 pm

In researching this further I came across this blog post from 2013, which seems to concur with the general view here on pensions and the Modelo 720, with some additional details that might be of interest to some.

http://jullastres.es/wordpress/?p=764

I'm still leaning towards not declaring the 'annuity' referred to above (or any of my other pension plans), on the basis that the pension benefits will not be taken until five years from now. If anyone has any thoughts on this though, I'd still be very interested to hear.

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby elusive » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:39 am

Can someone tell me what the exchange rate was for a 720 filed for last year.ie the 720 was filed this year before march

El Cid
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby El Cid » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:54 am

On 29/12/2017 it was 1.271

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby elusive » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:40 am

Thanks

*edit* was the year before (2016) about 1.18


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