UK Road Tax, do we need it?

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pietree
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UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby pietree » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:16 pm

High everyone,

I am thinking of buying a Uk vehicle just to do a job, I want to be prefectly legal.

The vehicle I have in mind has an MOT but no road Uk Road tax, does anybody know how I will get along without this, I know many just drive without it but I want to remain legal.

Your thoughs Thanks in advance
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby gerryh » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:20 pm

To legally use a non Spanish vehicle in Spain it needs to be fully legal in the country it is registered.
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby pietree » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:22 pm

Hi Thanks thats what I thought.

has anybody been pulled without tax on their vehicle and if so what was the ressult?

I want to use it in other parts of Europe where tax is paid in the fuel, I obviously need to get there though.
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby El Cid » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:36 pm

Many cars have been pulled for not being legal in Spain.

If it is UK registered and being used on ANY road it must have UK road tax and a UK MOT - a Spanish ITV is not sufficient. Obviously it must also be insured.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby pietree » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:38 pm

Ok thank you both, thats good enough for me, I will try to tax it from here online maybe
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby ashtondav » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:36 pm

You will also have to take it back to the uk for its MOT when due, and you also need to insure that the UK insurer (and it needs to be a UK insurer) is ok with the vehicle being out of the country for a period of one year (the longest it can legally be out of the UK because it then needs an MOT - unless under 3 years old).

If stopped (which admittedly is unlikely) you will be fined and the car impounded and crushed.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby katy » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:18 pm

I really don't think the Guardia could be *beep* about wether a UK car is taxed or not. I doubt they would have the legal procedure to do anything :? You can buy an MOT in Spain , have seen the advert. Not strictly legal but....

My Brother had a UK car in Carmona for a while. Was probably the only Brit car then. Fairly new so didn't need MOT. However, when he took it back to the UK. it needed an MOT and taxing. He drove through France and channel tunnel. took it for MOT the next day, on to DVLC and filled out a form that he was re-importing it, came out with tax disc and legal in 5 mins.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby julian » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:32 pm

even if the guardia don´t catch you Peter will, not sure which would be worse !!!!

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Miro » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:16 pm

I don't understand this attitude of "if I get caught" or not without road tax. The point here really is, if the car is not road legal in it's country of registration, then it is uninsured wherever you use it. That's just downright irresponsible, never mind illegal. Oh, and I think the Guardia actually DO give a **** if you have no valid insurance.
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby peteroldracer » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:03 pm

julian wrote:even if the guardia don´t catch you Peter will, not sure which would be worse !!!!

Because I believe that driving around in an uninsured car (which any untaxed Brit-reg must be) is as bad as wandering the streets with a loaded gun or an unsheathed sword, I report any that I see (with photo if possible) on the public roads of Spain to the DVLC, in the hope that at least action will be taken if a false declaration has been made under the SORN (Statutory Off Road Notice) regulations, so that the UK address is not chased for not paying road tax. The fine, for anyone found guilty is up to £5000.
To me, this is part of everyone's civic responsibility, just as much as reporting other crimes.
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby El Cid » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:41 pm

peteroldracer wrote: Because I believe that driving around in an uninsured car (which any untaxed Brit-reg must be) .


Just because you do not have UK road tax (or Spanish road tax) does not necessarily invalidate your insurance. Neither does the lack of an MOT or ITV.

It's just another Internet forum myth.

Read the conditions of your insurance policy - it is very unlikely that it makes any conditions about tax or MOT/ITV.

Insurance is all about risk - not paying your tax in no way changes the risk. Similarly the MOT - it does not prove roadworthiness for more than 5 minutes after the test.

For what it is worth, Linea Directa have confirmed to me that a valid ITV is not a requisite of their insurance. About the only thing that is, is a valid licence to drive - valid in Spain.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Devils Advocate » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:00 am

El Cid wrote:
Just because you do not have UK road tax (or Spanish road tax) does not necessarily invalidate your insurance. Neither does the lack of an MOT or ITV.

It's just another Internet forum myth.



"Not necessarily" being the operative words.

As for the internet forum myth you mention, this subject/debate raged long,long before that.
I'm sure you've googled for a definitive answer but have failed to find one.... as there isn't one. It's as clear as mud to be honest and dealt with on a case to case basis.

Insurance co.s don't ask about MOT/tax on the proposal forms I'll agree and looking through 4 policy schedules of our cars the words "legal for the road " appear on only 2 (although I've just found one of the cars is stated as having a tracker device when it hasn't....I'll correct that today. I wonder if thats a little arranged loophole? :? )

Anyway, I think the thing is that the question is never answered until the event happens.
Leaving road fund license to one side I feel it is wrong to suggest to people your insurance is fully valid if you have what could well be a fatal incident in a car without an MOT, especially if the car is displaying a fault when inspected. The ins. co would go through hoops not to pay out and at best would only honour 3rd party claims knowing they had recourse to pursue you in the civil courts for the money.

For 48 quid why would you not MOT your car if it was capable of passing :?

Something I for one don't what to put to the test.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby El Cid » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:22 am

Devils Advocate wrote: Leaving road fund license to one side I feel it is wrong to suggest to people your insurance is fully valid if you have what could well be a fatal incident in a car without an MOT, especially if the car is displaying a fault when inspected.


That is exactly the point I was making - the insurance company will try to avoid paying out if the car can be proven to be unroadworthy at the time of the accident - but that will have to be proved by an inspection and engineers report - the possession or otherwise of an MOT is pretty irrelevant.

That is exactly how it was explained to me by my insurance company.

Clearly I am not advocating not having an MOT but the case at issue here is a situation where a UK car is being driven in Spain and getting a UK MOT, and hence road tax, is not an option without returning to the UK.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Devils Advocate » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:45 am

Fair comments Sid, and although you didn't pick me up on it (thanks), I was not suggesting you personally were advocating driving un MOT'd/ITV'd.

I do have to make a point about your following statement though

El Cid wrote: the possession or otherwise of an MOT is pretty irrelevant.


I think it is very relevent. If the car is MOT'd and especially recently you have a definite recourse against the tester who will become involved..........i.e. the buck won't stop with you.

On the new MOT system "advisory" notices are issued on items/systems which although passable on the day maybe will not last the full year until the next MOT dependent on usage etc.
These advisories are handed to you in black and white and are posted on the DOT website for all to see (helpful for prospective buyers)

So for arguments sake if a recently MOT'd car involved in an incident requiring a vehicle examination were found to have a defect and the defect was not issued with a failure and more importantly was not given an advisory the focus would be on the test centre where questions would be asked in a big way.

In an un MOT'd car you'd be on your own and without a paddle.

The days of the old addage about the car only being right on the day of the test are behind us.
They will now send you away with a note saying "Your car isn't perfect but we're passing it anyway" :?
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Campo Steve » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:04 pm

My understanding is that a British registered car must be taxed etc in UK, regardless of where it is driven. To get tax you must have an MOT, so why not get one? You will need it to get the tax.

As for countries where road tax is included in the fuel price, irrelevent, you still need it taxed in UK. I suppose you could keep receipts for the fuel and try to claim some tax back, but don't know who from.
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby DavidSearl » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:57 pm

From David Searl

Well, team, I think you have covered just about everything, including the grey areas that make money for lawyers when disputed. Just remember that, MOT or no MOT, ITV or no ITV, Spanish road tax or UK road tax, a UK-plated vehicle is not allowed to spend more than six months in a calendar year in Spain.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby wendyakemp » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:18 pm

Although I do not agree with untaxed, un mot'd vehicles I would like to point out that my father had an accident a couple of months ago and found his m.o.t. expired.
He duly made his claim and came clean to the insurance company who duly paid him and the other party in full.
I was always of the opinion, as many of you were, that the insurance was void, but this is not the case.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:27 pm

I was under the impression that a UK registered vehicle continued to clock up the vehicle excise liability unless it had been made the subject of a SORN declaration.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Campo Steve » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:46 pm

I think you are right. But, if subject to a SORN declaration because it is in Spain, then the vehicle should be re-registered in Spain. Then it would become a Spanish registered vehicle and subject to ITV etc.

If not SORN'd then the vehicle exise liability would clock up. But allowing it to clock up is not a right. It is still supposed to be paid on time.
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:01 pm

If it is the subject of a SORN declaration it should be off the road. That's any road not just roads within the UK.

There is a different procedure for taking a vehicle out of the country:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Bu ... DG_4022582

The Spanish police and Guardia Civil, as well as everyone else, have direct access to DVLA records so establishing the status of a UK registered vehicle is a fairly straightforward affair.

http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPor ... =link.next

They can also check the validity of a UK MoT test certificate.

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/html/home.html


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