UK Road Tax, do we need it?

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markwilding
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby markwilding » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:39 pm

My understanding is you only need road tax to drive on a UK public road... more information here
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Bu ... DG_4022582
The spanish have thier own way of collecting this type of tax. I pay something to my local town hall once a year which a believe is a road tax I also seem to remember you can only take your car outside the UK for 3 months in any 1 year if you have UK insurance
Also you need to check what the rules for how long you can have a car in Spain before you would need to register it here.
1 thing i could never imagine is the Spanish Police checking to see if your road tax is up to date. Do the British police check Spanish cars to see if it's ITV. is up to date?
Last edited by markwilding on Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:46 pm

Surely there are only three alternatives.

Do nothing in the UK and clock up unpaid vehicle excise payments.

Make a SORN declaration and keep the vehicle off the road.

Make a notification of export of the vehicle.

Any action taken, or not, by Spanish authorities is purely academic.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby markwilding » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:52 pm

I agree otherwise if you don't do 1 of the above, the problem will not be In spain but in the UK when you return

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peteroldracer
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:30 pm

markwilding wrote: I pay something to my local town hall once a year which a believe is a road tax
I also seem to remember you can only take your car outside the UK for 3 months in any 1 year if you have UK insurance
Also you need to check what the rules for how long you can have a car in Spain before you would need to register it here.
1 thing i could never imagine is the Spanish Police checking to see if your road tax is up to date.

With respect mark, you get the prize for having the most incorrect assertions in one posting!
Unless your car is Spanish-registered, you cannot pay Spanish road tax on it. Whatever you pay at the Town Hall, it isn't for that.
The amount of time a UK insurer will cover you using the car abroad can vary from company to company - with most it is 3 months, but others seem happy for you to be away six months - maybe more?
See David Serle's comment above - you may only use a Brit-reg car on the road in Spain for six months in any one year. The old system of handing over the plates to the Guardia Civil, and them registering the dates etc so all parties know how long the car is off the road seems to have drifted into disuse, but the time allowed has not changed. Before any brings up the old "but I am not a resident" chestnut, this makes no difference, and in any case you become resident when you have been here for 183 days in any one year, including the time spent travelling to and fro.
Trafico certainly can and do check for road fund licence discs, and the dates are easy enough for anyone to read. It may not be an offence in Spanish law to drive a Brit-reg without valid road tax, but they certainly know that not having a valid disc makes you a tax-dodging fiddler, so they can feel free to tie you up for any amount of time, including impounding your car until you rematriculate it.

If you are one fo those that props up the bar in your local, dishing out pearls of wisdom like you have in your post, I hope you are prepared for the retribution from anyone taking your advice and losing a few grand's worth of motor! :roll:
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markwilding
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby markwilding » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:08 am

With Respect to you I dont understandwhat you are saying Quite clealy on the goverment websites it explains what is needed if you take your car out of the UK for more than a year
The following is on the website
Taking your vehicle abroad for more than 12 months (permanent export)
When a vehicle registered in the United Kingdom (UK) is taken out of the country for 12 months or more, it’s regarded as being permanently exported from the UK.

You can tell DVLA by filling in the purple section ‘Notification of Permanent Export’ (V5C/4) of the vehicle registration certificate (V5C), and send it to DVLA, Swansea SA99 1BD. Keep the rest of the registration certificate, as you may need this to re-register the vehicle abroad. Your vehicle will become subject to the legal requirements of the new country when exported.

If you don’t have a registration certificate you’ll need to get a certificate of permanent export (V561). Download and complete the V756 ‘Application for certificate or permanent export’ and send to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1AG
.

the rules for car taken out of the UK are different for less than 1 year
The following is also copied and pasted off of the website
Taking your vehicle abroad for less than 12 months (temporary export)
If a UK registered vehicle is taken abroad temporarily, it remains subject to UK law. This means that you as the keeper, must by law make sure that the vehicle stays taxed while it’s overseas. Providing the vehicle has a current MOT certificate and insurance, under Spyou’ll be able to tax the vehicle.

I think it's important to check how long you are allowed to have a car in Spain before you have to register it here, and clearly cars are reregisted because I sometimes see and old car with a recent number plate. i recently saw a old citroen with an English number plate but the car was Left hand drive and in the windscreen was a Croydon carpark pass ,then a few weeks later the car had a new Spanish number plate
on what basis you can tell me that the tax i pay on my car to my local town hall is not car tax i dont know As you point out and I thought was obvious my car was bought here
And please don't try to insult me my by trying to imply that all I do all day is prop up a bar all day I spend very little time with other English people because where I live there are'nt many. I speak Spanish well ,which means when I ask an official or Policeman a question I understand his answer I can also read the document and the reminder I get each year that What i am paying is CAR tax

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Campo Steve » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:03 am

Mark

I think the confusion arises because people got the impression that you were paying tax to your Town Hall in Spain on a UK registered car.

If the car is a Spanish registered car and therefore has Spanish plates then what you pay to the town hall is the road tax. If it is on UK plates then it isn't as that has to be paid in UK.
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:01 am

markwilding wrote:...1 thing i could never imagine is the Spanish Police checking to see if your road tax is up to date...

When the two web sites I quoted first became available I gave the links to a friend in the Guardia Civil. He used it like a new toy and still does, along with most of his colleagues.

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby markwilding » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:23 am

I still think you need to keep the car taxed only because if you take a car out of the UK less than a year and you are going to to return you need to have road tax for the return journey . the police could stop you at the port in the UK
quote from website


If you don’t tax the vehicle and it’s brought back to the UK untaxed, the vehicle will need to be transported and not driven upon entry back to the UK and SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) should be declared straight away.

And I still maintain if you keep your car in Spain you would have to reregister it, and an expired road tax disc is a very good way of telling the police how long your car has been in Spain

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby barry » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:38 am

I can imagine the outrage of the majority on this forum, if confronted in the uk with a european citizen driving a non-uk registered car on a permanent basis. Surely the issue is that, once out of uk and considered exported then it should be matriculated to conform with the regulations of he country where it s being driven.
And the spell check does not work!

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Campo Steve
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Campo Steve » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:47 am

markwilding wrote:I still think you need to keep the car taxed only because if you take a car out of the UK less than a year and you are going to to return you need to have road tax for the return journey . the police could stop you at the port in the UK

And I still maintain if you keep your car in Spain you would have to reregister it, and an expired road tax disc is a very good way of telling the police how long your car has been in Spain


Nothing to do with the return journey. Spain requires all cars on the road to be legal in country of registration i.e. tax disc up to date. The rule about how long it is in Spain also applies.

Expired tax discs should be a magnet for the traffic police. More so, British plates and no tax disc!
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby markwilding » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:50 am

thank you Barry

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pietree
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby pietree » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:15 pm

So all the English reg cars I see in Spain with no tax (and its a lot) are iether clocking up huge tax bills in the UK or illegally on a SORN certificate that the police here should pick up on?

That makes me mad, as I am paying out to remain legal, it makes me want to report them also. :x
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Campo Steve
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby Campo Steve » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:33 pm

pietree wrote:So all the English reg cars I see in Spain with no tax (and its a lot) are either clocking up huge tax bills in the UK or illegally on a SORN certificate that the police here should pick up on?


Or not even on a SORN certificate.

Even worse, many just get dumped here when they pack up!

I agree, it is really annoying.
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby pietree » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:12 am

Just sold my Spanish reg car, 4 years old, the Guy buying it calls insurance, they said, "oh we will have to come and inspect it to check that its road worthy first"..........then they said, "one moment please, Oh we see its already insured with us so it will be fine" they also would not accept the model that was on the documents, whats all that about?

I went to purchase my new car, same thing, "that model doesnt show up", I said "well its all thats on the documents I have here". They call me back just to confirm somebody else has insured my old car, do I want a new cover on my new vehicle, I say "yes please" answered a lot of questions (including correct model) with a yes, suddenly no inspection required for me iether nor any problem with the model? Im baffled the way they work here.. :o
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby masterob » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:47 am

Would I be right in thinking that in the UK the insurance relates more to the driver whereas in Spain it relates more to the vehicle?
I probably haven´t expressed that very well but I´m sure someone will clarify it!

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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby peteroldracer » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:59 am

I think you have it about right masterob: it seems difficult to reduce a premium by restricting who is covered, unlike UK where this makes a big difference - most seem to be "anyone over 25".
It probably makes it easier when the son/daughter, who is uninsured, has an accident yet fills in all the paperwork as if Dad was driving at the time. I have personal experience of this, and was more or less forced to accept the lie to get my car repaired. The local broker even rang the father to make sure he would go along with the fiddle, then told me all would be fine - which to be fair, it was!
One of the few times I wish I was rich, and could have afforded to have called the Guardi over to denounce the offending girl, costing her a hefty fine and me probably the repair.
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby disco_stu » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:32 pm

peteroldracer wrote: I report any that I see (with photo if possible) on the public roads of Spain to the DVLC, in the hope that at least action will be taken if a false declaration has been made under the SORN (Statutory Off Road Notice) regulations, so that the UK address is not chased for not paying road tax. The fine, for anyone found guilty is up to £5000.
To me, this is part of everyone's civic responsibility, just as much as reporting other crimes.

You sound like a nice bloke peter. I bet you have a cabinet full of Community Action Awards.
If i were you though I would stay away from marbella, your type usually end up in a wheely bin or a suit case. :lol:
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peteroldracer
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:36 pm

stu - I am a sweety. I just cannot stand freeloading *beep*.
Think on: if you regularly go into a bar where there are, say, 20 regulars, and you find out eight of them never pay for their drinks, what do you do? Go and slap them on the back and say "well done mate" when you know you and the other 11 are paying more, just to make up for the non-payers? Sheesh!
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby 10RDan » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:19 pm

peteroldracer wrote:I report any that I see (with photo if possible) on the public roads of Spain to the DVLC

Were you a traffic warden in a previous life, what an A hole ! Do you think half the piles of crap that drive around on Spanish plates are "legal", insurance etc. What gives you the right to report people / vehicles, I bet you'd love to walk around in a uniform with a stride of self importance.

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disco_stu
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Re: UK Road Tax, do we need it?

Postby disco_stu » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:02 pm

Strange analogy but to answer, I would probably find another bar. What I wouldn't do is take photos and send them to the police!
Out of interest, is it just expats you grass up or do you grass up Spanish too?
Chorizo's nice but nothing like getting your sausage battered.


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