owning property

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
Lavanda
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owning property

Postby Lavanda » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:06 am

What, exactly, does this phrase mean in LEGAL terms re: tax and inheritance purposes or selling the property, or, indeed, owning it:

"100% del pleno dominio con arreglo a su régimen matrimonial"

A friend bought a finca (with her money) and signed for it solo as the husband was in the UK and without an NIE. The above sentence appears on their estritura under her name and NIE and details and her husband's name without NIE and details.

I think it means they are joint owners. She thinks it means they are not and that they need to put it in joint names with his NIE etc and that he has to sign as well. For a small fee, she thinks.

frank
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Re: owning property

Postby frank » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:34 am

I'm no lawyer, but to me it looks like she has sole ownership.
"100% del pleno dominio con arreglo a su régimen matrimonial"
100% full ownership with regards to "marriage laws". "Régimen matrimonial" is the law set out that governs who gets what in a bust up, I think. If I was her husband, I'd be checking it out! ;-)
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

Bongtrees
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Re: owning property

Postby Bongtrees » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:11 am

What you dont make clear Lav is what did your friend want?

If she wanted it in her sole name, as Frank says, that is what she has got.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Beachcomber
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Re: owning property

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:34 am

Does the escritura make reference to 'separación de bienes' or 'comunidad de bienes'? If not, what is her marital regime in the UK, ie in or out of community of property?

This makes a difference when selling. If she is 'comunidad de bienes' with her husband he has to sign the escritura even if it is not registered in his name.

frank
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Re: owning property

Postby frank » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:10 am

[quote="Beachcomber"]Does the escritura make reference to 'separación de bienes' or 'comunidad de bienes'? If not, what is her marital regime in the UK, ie in or out of community of property?
[/quote]
Certainly worth looking into the "un regimen ganancial" and "regimen de separación"!!!!!!
I asked a Spanish friend, this was her answer.
Buenos dias Frank!!! interesante pregunta para empezar el día.
Bueno en mi opinión y llevo bastante tiempo sin tocar temas legales pero creo que el
100% del pleno dominio con arreglo a su régimen matrimonial" significa que la persona que tiene el 100% del es dominio de la propiedad puede disponer de la propiedad a su criterio. Es decir, que la mujer con el 100% de pleno dominio de la propiedad puede decir " No futbol con tus amigos en mi casa" puede disponer de la propiedad como la convenga PERO si en el contrato de matrimonio acordaron un regimen ganancial ( es decir, que todo lo que se genere en el matrimonio pertenece a los dos) entonces tu amigo tiene el mismo derecho que ella, pero si hay un regimen de separación de bienes, tu amigo no puede ver el fútbol si su mujer no quiere.
Espero que te haya aclarado algo
te veo luego
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

Lavanda
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Re: owning property

Postby Lavanda » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:29 pm

Thanks for that! I'm not sure she or her husband thought about it at the time. She came over to sign because she could. Her husband was working so didn't because he couldn't. I think now they are thinking in terms of assets, joint, separate, etc. with a view to sorting out some inheritance plans.

Lavanda
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Re: owning property

Postby Lavanda » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:25 pm

Right! After consultation and investigation it appears that different escrituras, by different notaries for different properties and fincas, state different matrimonial positions. Only one has 'ganancial'. The others do not. It sounds rather confusing.

Being a bit curious, I looked at our own escrituras and they don't seem to mention anything. Do you all know what 'scheme' you fall under and how does anyone find out? :?

Beachcomber
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Re: owning property

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:54 pm

I think that if the marital regime is not specified it is determined by what is usual in the person's home country which, in the case of the UK i believe, is separación de bienes.

frank
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Re: owning property

Postby frank » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:47 pm

[quote="Beachcomber"]I think that if the marital regime is not specified it is determined by what is usual in the person's home country which, in the case of the UK i believe, is separación de bienes.[/quote]
I think you are probably correct, as in Cataluña. I did receive this from another pretty switched on Spanish friend in reply to Lavanda's question.
Su pregunta es un poco complicada. Le comento.
Todo depende de como tengan ese matrimonio convenidos sus derechos.
Es España existen 2 posibilidades por derecho.
El régimen económico de GANANCIALES, y el de SEPARACION DE BIENES.
El primero se aplica por ley en todo el estado Español ( excepto en Catalunya que por ley se adquiere la Separación de Bienes automaticamente ) cuando se contrae matrimonio. Y ese derecho quiere decir, que: Desde el momento del matrimonio, toda ampliación de bienes económicos, son al 50% entre el marido y la esposa.
Siempre y cuando antes de la boda y a través de un Notario no se modifique ese derecho por el de Separacion de Bienes.
Separación de bienes quiere decir, que lo de la esposa es exclusivamente de la esposa y lo del marido exclusivamente del marido. Por supuesto los primeros herederos de ambos siempre son los hijos.
En Catalunya ( mi tierra ) es justo al contrario. Por derecho toda persona que se casa alli, adquiere automaticamente el derecho de Separación de Bienes, ( es decir lo de la esposa es solo de ella y lo del marido solo de el ). En el caso que antes del matrimonio se quiera cambiar por el de Ganaciales, se acude a un Notario y se manifiesta el deseo de cambio.
Por los datos que usted me explica, y al poner pleno dominio 100% de la mujer, hace falta saber si son españoles y donde estan casados , para averiguar a que derecho de régimen económico pertenecen. Yo de todas formas por lo que usted me explica, opino como usted que el marido no pillará de la compra de esa propiedad nada de nada.
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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DavidSearl
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Re: owning property

Postby DavidSearl » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:42 pm

For Lavanda and Frank,

Whoof! Who would have thought your question, Lavanda, could draw so many fascinating responses. Frank, congratulations, you appear very well connected. Please thank your friend from Catalunya for not responding in Catalan.

1. The wife owns this property completely and can do exactly what she wants with it. Regardless of all other factors, she can sell it, leave it to her children from her first marriage, mortgage it, and if she does not pay the taxes, she and only she will be responsible.

2. If the couple wishes to have the property registered in both names, she will have to "sell" it to her husband and this will attract costs of around 10 per cent of the declared sale price. Transfer tax of 7 per cent, plus notary, plus property registry, and plus valia tax, just as in a normal sale.

3. If she dies, leaving the property to her husband, he will face Spanish inheritance tax on the full value of it.

4. As your Catalan friend points out, the normal Spanish situation for a marriage is "gananciales" or Community property. But in Catalonia, it is separation of property. Each spouse has his or her own. Each couple can opt out of this default situation and choose the other alternative when they are married. This is why the contract makes reference to the situation of the matrimony.

5. The difference between community property and separation of goods would only come into play in a divorce, where who gets what is the disputed issue.

6. It has no effect on the individual ownership of any specific part of the couple's wealth and the decision as to who gets what might be resolved by the wife keeping the home while the husband gets other assets, for example.

Good Luck with it, David Searl
You and the Law in Spain

frank
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Re: owning property

Postby frank » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:00 pm

[quote="DavidSearl"]For Lavanda and Frank,
Whoof! Who would have thought your question, Lavanda, could draw so many fascinating responses. Frank, congratulations, you appear very well connected. Please thank your friend from Catalunya for not responding in Catalan.[/quote]
He knows he'd be wasting his time speaking to me in Catalan, we're happy conversing/writing in castellano though.
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?


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