Court orders Brits to purchase illegal properties

[frank]

"but come to the north and this situation doesn't exsist."

Rubbish! The problem maybe a lot less then Andalucia, but I doubt there is anywhere in Spain that does not suffer the problem to some degree

"Santiago de Compostela, 26 jun (EFECOM).- La organización internacional ecologista Greenpeace ha informado hoy de que en Galicia hay construidas 6.000 viviendas ilegales y están pendientes de edificar en los próximos años otras 800.000, la mayoría segundas residencias, en 86 municipios del litoral.
"
http://www.eleconomista.es/empresas-fin ... yecto.html
http://www.lavozdeasturias.es/noticias/ ... kid=395058

[markwilding]

Frank, You are correct when you say It exists in other parts of Spain, but not on the scale of Andalucia However, here in the Basque coutry it isn't a problem I've also heard that in Santander there have been some problems. When you talk about these places they have one common thing they are tourist areas

One problem is though when speak about these things to people from here they all say that these buildings must be pulled down because their mentality tends to be a bit black and white. They don't seem to see past the legal side. 'They don't seem to understand the personal devastation it will cause, not to mention the effect on the economy of their own communities , which would take years to recover

[frank]

Mark, that's exactly what I said, "The problem maybe a lot less than Andalucia". My reply was in answer to your statement, "but come to the north and this situation doesn't exsist.". The north is of course a huge area and it clearly does exist. My quote about Galicia alone mentioned 6,000 illegal builds,and 800,000 to come! That's a lot of illegal builds, by anyone's standards.

[katy]

There used to be a map of property blackspots in Spain on the web. Nearly all the regions had illegal properties, Valencia, madrid, Barcelona etc. Worse in Andalucía because there was more construction (and mainly British buyers!).

I have read this am. that yet another British couple have recently been served with a demolition order (Axarquia) and owners in Chiclana are being asked to pay 24,000 euro to legalise their previously legal properties.

[Beachcomber]

That's a great way for the government of a bankrupt country to raise money. Summarily declare a property illegal then charge several thousand euros to make it legal again.

Robert Mugabe should take lessons in extortion from Rodríguez the Cobbler.

[frank]

"There used to be a map of property blackspots in Spain on the web"
Similary I saw a list of people (read alcaldes) and companies under investigation, and I don't think any area of Spain escaped.

[Jool]

It is vital this is not made into an Andalucian problem, as it is nation wide..... just in different guises - Valencia, Murcia (Trampolin Hills Golf is just the latest, he was offering Agents 18% commission on already cheap prices so of course it was dodgy!)

Perhaps the recession will make the spanish finally stand up and say we want a properly run truly democratic country not these tin pot regimes run along lines of nepotism and brown envelopes..............

I get SO frustrated by Spain, lovely people, lovely countryside, beautiful weather and it is all increasingly spoilt thanks to greedy individuals who cannot see beyond the end of their own egos..............

[markwilding]

Here is a map of Blackspots, because it is mainly filled in by English speakers it only shows the south of Spain and a few areas inland. Other areas should have flags but they are not areas where foreigners typically live
http://www.spainforyou.net/spanish_prop ... kspots.htm

After reading you post Frank I asked a couple of guys I know and they told me that the two regions that have escaped are Asturias and The Basque County because the economies are based on industry and haven't been reliant in the construction industry so much. The economies are suffering but not so badly.
The rest of Spain has been hit.
Most of the problems here are caused by over complicated laws . The Spanish don't seem to be able to do anything in a simple manner.
eg The smoking law, instead of saying no smoking in any bar , they have to have exceptions
I have read that there are three thousand bars in the Basque country and only 6 are non smoking
you could have achieved that with no law
Just think how many different types of police there are. everything here is fudge complicated laws . There are too many layers of government too,
But this is Spain . When I ask why do you accept these things? they say es asi whilst shrugging their shoulders

[Jool]

Fudge is a very special recipe, made to standards unknown elsewhere in the world, and leaving a very particular and distinctive taste long after you have partaken...........unique to Spain

[markwilding]

Thanks for that Jool
Another thing about fudge is that it's very sweet, however the meaning I was using usually leaves you with a bitter taste in your mouth

[Lavanda]

Well, surely the point of all this, and numerous other threads that concern this topic, is that this sort of thing should not happen ANYWHERE. This forum is pretty popular. It has many readers and contributors. What happened to collective action and campaigning activities? What happened to the idea that politics serves the people and not the other way around? Perhaps we all love to moan about it and be 'shocked' by it all but WE do nothing positive. We shrug, and write "... that's Spain ... third world country ... shouldn't be allowed ..." and then we go off and do something else.

PS We currently have visitors, English but with a house on the other side of Spain. They say the Prior's (house that got demolished as it was a luxury villa and not a campo house with pigs) were asking for trouble and deserved everything they got. They should have 'played the game' and not given other ex-pats a bad name. Amazing! There's always two sides to everything and twenty zillion opinions.

[Beachcomber]

Well, for my own part. I have copies of letters and emails that I have sent to the EU, various euro MPs, National Government departments, the Junta de Andalucia, Sevillana, Telefónica, Correos, DGT and even, on one occasion, the King.

These have not been entirely without a degree of success but not in proportion to the amount of effort I have put into it.

[katy]

Another Ayuntamiento under investigation...where will it all end

http://www.diariosur.es/20091116/espana ... 61249.html

Lavanda your visitors are typical British appeasers, much the same response given by most on the coast. many have the I'm allright Jack syndrome. They do not realise that all this stuff is killing the property market (if not already dead!) and affects all our investments. Who would buy now if they did a google first

[Jool]

Did the King reply Beach? He was instrumental in history in a healthy way for Spain, but I have never felt so powerless in all my life as I do living in Spain, officialdom just does not seem to care..............

[markwilding]

I asked, What should we do to stop these things from happening again this morning to a group of Students. All of them agreed that all illegally built house's should be pulled down. When I pointed out the the effect on the economy would be dire. they asked how else are we going to punish the guilty and stop it from happening again.
I had to say that most buyers are innocent explaining the tricks to make people buy these properties that I had heard on the radio 4 programme
I asked why don't they send the guilty fraudsters to prison for much longer for at least 10 years due to vasts amounts of money involved? and would make the risk less viable
I got the stock answer that España es asi with the shrug of the shoulders

[katy]

Mark, I agree that illegal properties should be demolished as that is the only way to stop future illegal building. The developers have always been prepared to pay a fine for legality before and demolishing is the only way forward. Just that the spanish government should underwrite this and fully recompense the innocent owners...let the Government chase the developers for the money.

[Jool]

Katy you are dreaming again, but its a lovely dream!!

[chrissiehope]

... I agree that illegal properties should be demolished as that is the only way to stop future illegal building.....

...but what if all the paperwork etc at the time of purchase said it was a legal property, then a couple of years later, along comes the Junta and says "Ah well, no it isn't" ?

[Lavanda]

You need to invoke the law of non-respective action that Spain has.

A property declared legal with all the bits of paper in place cannot be retrospectively be declared illegal. It is possible that the legal status of the house was granted illegally but that's a different issue altogether.

[frank]

So how can you ensure that the "legal" status was granted "illegally"?