Residencia card

[masterob]

Beachcomber, thanks. I'm only curious because since getting my residencia card a few years back I have never ever been required to produce it to any Official in the course of their business. That leaves me wondering whether the requirement for EU members to register is a throw back to the days when the Spanish State needed to keep tabs on everyone not to mention keeping some civil servants somewhere gainfully employed! I would have thought a valid Passport would be sufficient to identify foreigners, but then what do I know because I'm not very good at getting my head around the level of State bureaucracy prevelant here!

[Beachcomber]

It's probably just another bit of control freakery, like having to register PAYG mobiles (as though a terrorist wouldn't get around this by using a PAYG mobile from a country in which registration is not required).

[El Cid]

Under EU law you have the right of free movement within the EU. However if you stay in one country for more than 3 months you lose this right and cease to be a tourist.

Under these conditions each EU state has the right to impose certain registration requirements on anyone staying in that state for more than 90 days.

They have the right to insist on you having independent medical cover (either from private insurance or that provided under EU reciprocal arrangements such as E121/106). They also have the right to insist that you can provide proof of income so as not to become a burden on the (new) state.

Spain has chosen to ignore the health/income requirements that they could legally insist on and only require that you register on the central register of foreigners.

So, is it really such a big problem to just go down to the Police station and register?

If you want to bore yourself to death - here is chapter and verse on the relevant EU directive.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF

And here is the relevant Spanish law that was introduced in 2007 in line with the EU directive.

http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2007/02/28/p ... -08566.pdf

Sid

[masterob]

Sid, thanks for that very full explanation. It still doesn't rationalise the Spanish Governments' need to maintain a register of EU citizens other than as Beachcomber suggests, control freakery and maybe officialdom for the sake of it!
You are, of course, right that going to register is not a big deal, more of a chore but "when in Rome" and all that!
Hopefully by the time my current residencia card expires I will in pastures new so the need will not arise.

[katy]

It isn't just Spain, I know France and the Netherlands have something similar.

[El Cid]

The relevant wording from the EU decree is:-

(12) For periods of residence of longer than three months, Member States should have the
possibility to require Union citizens to register with the competent authorities in the place of
residence, attested by a registration certificate issued to that effect.

(13) The residence card requirement should be restricted to family members of Union citizens who
are not nationals of a Member State for periods of residence of longer than three months.

As you can see it is optional but, as Katy has pointed out, other EU countries do the same so it is unfair to say it is just the Spanish being control freaks! It also explains why the card is no longer available as an option.

Sid

[masterob]

Sid, call me a cynic but the EU is hardly a beacon of true democracy nor are many of it's constituent Members so it doesn't surprise me that there are other countries (probably the majority) who enjoy the control freakery the EU gives them! But that's another story probably best not continued here!

[janda_grant2]

We have the new permanent residency certificates and contrary to popular belief they do expire in 5 years and have to be renewed. We were told this when we changed our expired residencia cards by the office in Seville. It took a lot of scouring but lo and behold there is a date on them and in line with Spanish residents (although they get 10 years) we have to renew our identification on or just after this date! (Whether we will or ot is another story!!!!)

[hillybilly]

Strange! Mine came from Sevilla too, has no expiry date on it but I was told verbally it was valid for 10 years Did you apply for residente comunitario con caracter permanente?

[DavidSearl]

FROM DAVID SEARL

FOR GERRYH, EL CID, AND ALL

Well, gang, I think you have covered the Certificate of Registration pretty well. At one office they kept the old residence card. At another office they returned it. Not to mention there is no requirement to produce it.
Responding to two specific questions that remain:

1. How long does it last?

The European Union law states that this Certificate is valid for the duration. It need never be renewed.

The Spanish authorities would like you to come in and file a change of address or circumstances with them, but there is no legal requirement for this.

2. If I don't get a Certificate of Registration, what will they do to me?

Nothing. There is no mention anywhere of fines or whippings or any other legal action.

The Spanish authorities have some control over their own citizens who fail to renew their National Identity Document. If a Spaniard does not have his DNI, he can be prosecuted for failure to identify himself. The fine can be up to 300 euros, though I cannot find a case.

This does not apply to EU residents. Their passports identify them properly.

Note: You should check the Spanish blogs to see how annoyed they are with standing in line to renew their DNI. Sounds just like this lot, only more angry.

Good luck with it, David Searl

[janda_grant2]

trange! Mine came from Sevilla too, has no expiry date on it but I was told verbally it was valid for 10 years Did you apply for residente comunitario con caracter permanente?

Yes.The date is written in words at the end of the gocument 'Y para que conste. a lso efectos de justificar el cumplimiento de la obligacion dispuesta por la normative arriba indicada. se expide el presente en SEVILLA a trece de agosta de dos mil ocho'. They were quite insistent that the law said 'every 5 years' but not sure if I'll bother again

[Beachcomber]

The full text of the law is here:

http://www.mir.es/SGACAVT/derecho/rd/rd240_2007.html

and I can see no mention of a time limit on a certificate of 'Residencia de carácter permanente'.

Probably something else they made up on the spot like the extraneous requirement to produce your old residence card.

[julian]

Yes.The date is written in words at the end of the gocument 'Y para que conste. a lso efectos de justificar el cumplimiento de la obligacion dispuesta por la normative arriba indicada. se expide el presente en SEVILLA a trece de agosta de dos mil ocho'

that is the issue date, not the expiry date

[janda_grant2]

that is the issue date, not the expiry date

I know that- as it's dated 2008 it could hardly be the renewal date could it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That doesn't alter the fact we were told quite insistently that we had to renew 5 years from that date. Whether that's correct or not is a different issue, but two of us (myself and Hillybilly) have both been told by by the officina de extranjeros in Sevilla that we need to renew in either 5 or 10 years!

[markwilding]

And when I went they told me I would never have to renew it. They also told me that it had nothing to do with residence. The number on it is to to with tax, and that I would have to use my passport for ID from then on
My suggestion that all those who think they should renew it every five years go down to your local office wait in the rain or burning sun in a queue, then when there is not enough time to see everybody to go back again the next day and continue until you have another bit of paper
I for one won't be going back

[julian]

sorry Janda, your words made it look like you were referring to an expiry date


"We have the new permanent residency certificates and contrary to popular belief they do expire in 5 years and have to be renewed. We were told this when we changed our expired residencia cards by the office in Seville. It took a lot of scouring but lo and behold there is a date on them "

[Mowser]

In and out in 40 minutes in Torre del Mar. That was even allowing for the fact I had forgotten a few things. That's it - no more residencias needed.

[El Cid]

Probably something else they made up on the spot like the extraneous requirement to produce your old residence card.

Or the requirement for photos which are not required!

Some offices have even asked for photos for an NIE application.

They are so thick that they cannot even read the clearly stated requirements on the back of the form.

I would not believe anything these bunch of useless jobsworths tell you.

As Beachcomber and David Searle said, the law is quite clear as to what the requirements are - the trouble is that no one has told these idiots!

Sid

[lenox]

Well - it's not a residence card. Those are now only for non-Europeans (my American wife finally got her card renewed - after waiting only six months - and has a snappy tarjeta de residencia - lucky lady!).
This unfoldable blue A4 paper is a kind of 'yes, you are registered with the police as a second-class European and first-class tax payer' receipt. Don't forget to carry it at all times, along with your Passport (i.e, your ID).
So, after all those years as a 'residente', now the word - for Europeans - is moot.

[markwilding]

Why do you need to carry the piece of paper?
It quite clearly says on it that it is not valid to ID or confirm the nationalty of the bearer at the top and the bottom
You should carry your passport though, which I dont. At the moment I use my photo driving licence which may or may not be a problem when I get stopped, but I prefer that to the risk of having my passport stolen or getting lost