Demolition - yet for 8 years property owners never told

[frank]

Think you're right Beachy, the coverage, or lack of it, of the lady giving the cobbler an ear bashing shows just how much Spain really cares about the problem.

[julian]

Marta Andreasen amenazó con boicotear las subvenciones comunitarias a España si no se resuelve el problema de las viviendas expropiadas a sus compatriotas en aplicación de la Ley de Costas. A todos prometió Zapatero respuesta cuando vuelva en junio para hacer balance de la presidencia española

(el pais)

[Bongtrees]

Think you're right Beachy, the coverage, or lack of it, of the lady giving the cobbler an ear bashing shows just how much Spain really cares about the problem.

The media is censored by the Government.

Had the people of Spain been allowed to see the exchange on the news and then read about it in the newspapers maybe the people who after all are the real Spain might do something about it at the next election.

[peteroldracer]

try hassling your own Spanish MP.

Unless you have taken the rare and difficult route of taking Spanish citizenship, you do not have a Spanish MP. As expats, we can vote in local elections, and European ones, but not in national ones, unlike in the UK, where any EU citizen, resident in the UK and registered on the Electoral Roll can vote in all local, national and European elections.
I believe that all the time you are a British citizen, carrying a British passport, isn't there some waffling promise about being protected and supported by some "Britannic Majesty" ?

[Beachcomber]

The UK government isn't doing much to help a couple of pensioners who have been kidnapped by Somalis. In fact, the Royal Navy stood by and watched it happen because they had been ordered not to intervene so what help can Britons in Spain expect in respect of the demolition of their properties.

However, criminal acts against UK citizens in Spain are being perpetrated not by pirates but by the Spanish government. Mind you ....

It seems that, in order to qualify for help from the UK government, you need to be of minority ethnicity as evidenced by the efforts they went to on behalf of a convicted criminal in China and a 'British resident' from Guantanamo Bay who isn't even a UK citizen.

[country boy]

OH Beach!! How absolutely true........depressing isn't it? Why are we, so few, the only ones who can see?
Another large one, Barman, por favor

[frank]

"The UK government isn't doing much to help a couple of pensioners who have been kidnapped by Somalis. In fact, the Royal Navy stood by and watched it happen because they had been ordered not to intervene"

Yes, they were ordered not to intervene because the captain decided it was far too risky, I think it was one of those decisions that can only be made someone there on the spot. Damned if you do etc. I think it was the French (?) that stormed a boat and a hostage got killed, so perhaps that was in his mind.
"What you have got is a small open boat which is crammed full of pirates armed with AK47s and Rocked Propelled Grenades and two middle-aged yachties, all loaded into this small boat which is full of fuel."
As for the couple, apparently they had discussed the danger with relatives, but still went ahead and sailed down that coast.

[Beachcomber]

Yes, but the pensioners in Albox aren't in a small fuel laden boat being held hostage by pirates, at least not by Somali pirates!

[frank]

True, but the UK Government, along with a few others, can only really express their "displeasure" in the EU, there's not an awful lot they can do. The EU doesn't want to enforce the sanctions, withhold their cash, so what would be your suggested course of action for the UK to take? Despite most expats contempt for the British press, there are loads of stories featured here, loads of TV reports on it, and as yet nothing has bothered the Spanish, so what to do? I'm sure if the Spanish were to try to tell UK how to run it's affairs, we'd probably feel much the same, completely indifferent.
Similar story in Cyprus today.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... fight.html

[Lavanda]

Frank wrote,
"I don't seriously believe it's the Governments job to follow Brits that have emigrated all over the world, tending to their needs when things go wrong."

The fact is that it IS the British Government's job to look after it's citizens, worldwide. How do I know? They told me. After 18 months unsuccessful attempts to get the E106 here I received a call from the British Consulate General in Malaga. They had been contacted by the British Embassy in Madrid who had been contacted by the Dept. of Works and Pensions in Newcastle to sort out our problem. WE DID NOT ASK FOR THIS HELP. I was, frankly, shocked at the level of concern everyone had shown towards two, fit and healthy people living in the wilds of Extremadura who were trying to sort out paperwork here. I was told, "THIS IS OUR JOB! THIS IS WHAT WE DO! THIS IS WHAT WE ARE PAID TO DO AND WHY WE HAVE OFFICES WORLDWIDE!"

Someone, somewhere IS responsible for all those threathened by having their house demolished. In the end, it IS the responsibility of the UK Government to ensure its citizens have EU law protecting them wherever they are throughout Europe. This is open for discussion and different opinions but it does not change the fact.

[frank]

"Someone, somewhere IS responsible for all those threathened by having their house demolished."
You're right, and IMHO it's the Spanish/French/Turkish Government, or wherever you have chosen to emigrate to. I've already asked the question, but if you think the UK Government is responsible, what would you propose the UK Government do (and all the other countries that have nationals involved) that it's not already doing to miraculously solve the problem? Nothing that has been done so far has made any difference, perhaps you have the answer they have all been looking for. People keep banging on about what the UK should do, but I don't see many feasible suggestions being offered.

[chrissiehope]

Frank - I see your point re emigres, but what about people like us who have bought property in Spain as a holiday home ? We're still UK residents & citizens - if we had a problem (which AFAIK we don't, thankfully), shouldn't we be getting the support of the UK authorities ?

[Beachcomber]

Unfortunately the Spanish political parties which have some sympathy towards the plight of foreigners in Spain have no power or influence. Whether Alternativa Española or the Verdes would have the same concern if they were in power will probably never be known.

Meanwhile these people have to rely on help from wherever they can get it and as many of them are British they expect it from that direction. Sadly their expectations are not being realised.

[julian]

"Whether Alternativa Española or the Verdes would have the same concern if they were in power will probably never be known"

the verdes would have all country properties bulldozed overnight so I doubt we´d get much concern from them !

[Lavanda]

So the conclusion would appear to be that this whole mess IS a problem that must be addressed by the UK government, on behalf of its citizens, who happen to live in Andalucia. That being so, all this hand-wringing and complaining about the lack of action by the Spanish government/Andalucian Junta/judges, etc. becomes rather meaningless, doesn't it?

I have no idea what people should do and I wouldn't be so silly as to think I know anything about it BUT everyone needs to get together and lodge a joint action. I'd start with King Juan Carlos and, as a courtesy, solicit his advice. Always start at the top - it saves a lot of time. The only real problem is getting everyone together in a group. There are thousands of individual cases but, if handled individually, they will be ignored and any action will fail.

However, I do think that to keep banging on about 'the Prior case' is counter-productive as they were a very suspect example of how to think you can stick two-fingers up at planning regs. and then be amazed when your house get pulled down. They, more than anyone else, have made thousands of would-be supporters, yawn, switch off and walk away.

Also the remark by Beachcomber,
"The problem is that most ordinary people wouldn't have sufficient funds to bribe a Spanish MP to take on their case."
is, surely, libellous???

[julian]

I think that one of the complications of fighting against this on mass is that their answer will be that the houses were illegally built, which although isn´t true in every case, is certainly true in some cases...there was an article about all this in the english sur this week, and I´ll quote a small part but it has important significance.

"our lawyer told us to go ahead and build, as this was normal practice here and we would later receive a fine which would enable us to legalise our property"
now that is quoted from someone who is now up in arms about the possibility of his house being demolished....did that person really not realise at the start that he was building an illegal house??

I can remember well those times a few years ago when many were doing what this guy did, there were many houses being built illegally, the owners knew that at the time and openly talked about the fact, now, a few years later many of those same people have "forgotten" or choose to change their story significantly.

of course this isn´t true of all the people who have problems now, but the junta will for sure answer with examples of these cases where the house was built illegally, and the owner knew so at the time.

[frank]

"So the conclusion would appear to be that this whole mess IS a problem that must be addressed by the UK government,"
Not surprisingly, not a conclusion I have arrived at, but even so you suggest the problem should be "addressed" by the UK Government, I'm still waiting to hear what they can do, over and above what they are already doing. My opinion is that the problem lies with the Spanish Government, or if they continue to do nothing, the EU. But the EU doesn't seem to be seriously interested, it's given a few warnings, but that's about as serious as it gets. If the EU is not interested enough in it's citizens (many other nationalities involved) to do anything, I'm not sure what you expect the UK to do.

[katy]

"our lawyer told us to go ahead and build, as this was normal practice here and we would later receive a fine which would enable us to legalise our property"now that is quoted from someone who is now up in arms about the possibility of his house being demolished....did that person really not realise at the start that he was building an illegal house??

of course this isn´t true of all the people who have problems now, but the junta will for sure answer with examples of these cases where the house was built illegally, and the owner knew so at the time.

Yes they did and that was the way the Spanish always did it. If someone buys in a country where they are not familiar with third world practices and they are told this by a locally hired Lawyer then shouldn't that Lawyer be liable? As for Lavanda's post...utter crap, cease defending the indefensible The Priors did everything correctly and I don't think their supporters are exactly yawning, just you. A petition of over 2000 people personally affected by the property scandals has been sent to the King and there is a photo of Suzanne who organised it handing the same petition to Brown, featured in the British press but not the Spanish press of course.

I usually find that these apologists are involved some way in selling/renting spanish property or are just afraid of seeing their property asset falling...they will anyway

[frank]

"As for Lavanda's post...utter crap, cease defending the indefensible"
O to be a "wordsmith" like you Katy! ;-) I thought much the same, but the diplomat in me prevented me from saying it! ;-)

[Devils Advocate]

Swiss finishing school has its advantages