Tenancy Law

[Jim Allen]

Bongtree. Well I have this time.
The simple fact it that the laws are there somewhere.
European directives are double glazed unit must be 4mm 16mm gap and 4mm .Toughened below around waste height. Laminated mainly in commercial properties.
In some cases you can get away with narrower double glazed units by usines a warm edge spacer bar however the glass itself still has to comply.
New E.U directives on glass units and infact windows in general for new installtions including replacement start in October this year.
Window films are available in Spain as they are in the rest of Europe.
That fact that Spain wish to ignore this issue is for the insurance companies to be conecerned with as is the landlord.
Security tape is a a very temorary measure if broken glass is being replaced.Even then your on dodgey ground. I have to say that I am assuming the the property thats rented is relatively new.
Yes you can put whatever glass you want in your own home and tough if you hurt yourself. Hurt someone else however and expect a claim.

Jim Allen

[Jool]

I thought David Searl did answer the questions here

No, there is no law requiring that safety glass be used in patio doors in private homes. The glassmakers and architects and everyone else recommend safety glass where there is danger of people bumping into it,but there is no law requiring it in a dwelling.

No, there is no requirement that landlords or anyone else place markers on vertical glass in a private dwelling. There is a set of rules applying to public spaces and work places, but not to residences.

[DavidSearl]

FROM DAVID SEARL

FOR JOOL

Thank you, Jool.

And thanks also to the posters who mentioned EU regulations. Yes, they are there. However, they have not been enacted into Spanish law and so do not apply. Nevertheless, they would make another item to be thrown into the lawsuit pot.

And, for Beachcomber, "To contract out of the Act" is a general term meaning that one party who is protected by law with certain rights cannot sign these rights away in a private contract. Nor can such a private contract stipulate any agreements which are contrary to law. That is, the parties can make such a contract but these items will be void if challenged.

Best Regards, David Searl

[Beachcomber]

But if the rules on glass in patio doors do not apply in Spain the only conceivable injury that the landlord could be held responsible for is, perhaps, from a faulty gas heater (which I don't have) or, possibly, electrocution from a badly maintained plug or wall socket.

Or maybe, from the standpoint of some of the contributors to this thread, he could be held responsible if a child drowns in the swimming pool because the lifeguard was not doing his job properly or if someone cut their foot on a glass which they had dropped and had not cleared up thoroughly. It is this kind of thing from which my contract is designed to protect me.

I have never heard of the term 'Contracting out of the Act'. Is this a stipulation in UK law or is it a translation of a Spanish term?

[Devils Advocate]

Interesting one, I'll ask OH tonight Beachy

[julian]

bizarre as it seems , even if two parties agree, and sign, certain clauses, the clauses can be deemed null and void by a judge, not heard it called by that specific name though.

[DavidSearl]

FROM DAVID SEARL

FOR JULIAN AND BEACHCOMBER

The expression, "You cannot contract out of the Act" is solicitorspeak, not a law. It's what the professor says when his students make a clause in a contract that goes against some particular law. Thus, it would be invalidated when challenged. Like Shylock and the "pound of flesh". Not allowed today. Except for banks.

So, Beachcomber, if someone injured himself in your rental flat because of some negligence on your part, he would surely be able to claim against you for damages.

In the issue of Rogue and the glass door, I said he could lose. All your arguments have weight.

Best Regards, David Searl

[Jool]

Not allowed today. Except for banks.

I am intrigued by this statement David, can you say more? Are you perhaps referring to the way banks are wriggling out of their obligations under bank guarantees? Or trying to anyway?

[Colinm]

Jool, I think its called sarcasm. Its taught in solicitor school so that they can treat their clients with the contempt that they deserve. (that's sarcasm too!)

[Beachcomber]

That also works very well the other way around! Perhaps there should be a school for the clients of solicitors. Bags me a job as teacher.

[Devils Advocate]

Ran this quickly past OH last night and she pointed me to this,...........

http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/docs/lc292bill.pdf

An example she gave me was for arguments sake, you rent your house out with a pool but you know the pool to be dangerous...........say a bottle had shattered and you hadn't drained/cleansed the pool to rectify.

You get the tennants to sign that the pool is dangerous and must not be used, I'd assumed that would be enough.

Wife reckons that you would still be in trouble if the idiots did decide to ignore this and went in and cut themselves.

To protect yourself the pool must have been properly covered, drained,fenced/gated off signs up suggesting danger etc. to refute any subsequent claim.

She says the act is to stop abuse with totally unfair contracts being drawn up against the "little man" especially in the workplace, although it does hamper people like Beachy trying to lay down a completely sensible set of just rules without a lot of hard work on his behalf to combat the idiot element who do not take heed of anything that is said or asked of them.

[Beachcomber]

Thanks for the information, DA.

Luckily I now have sufficient return bookings for my apartment from people in whom I can be reasonably confident that they will not make spurious claims against me.

[knowal]

There is a common sense issue here.
I had patio doors in the UK which we obviously kept too clean, as I ended up hitting my head one day.
After that I put arty decals on the doors and that solved the problem.
As the OP had similar warnings, I would have expected them to have done the same.

[patricia]

Yes and the other common sense issue is for Landlords to do same lol!

[Devils Advocate]

Not as nasty or as serious as OP's accident and case but as an aside, the OH had a *beep* wit come in to her office wanting to "sue for every penny they've got" because the owner of a let in Mijas said "private pool" in the advert. Mr. and Mrs. numpty were well put out by the fact that a neighbouring property did in fact have a glimpse of said pool. Wifey, tried to explain that was not the context of "private" in the advert. Mr. and Mrs. Numpty would not have it and wanted action Repeated advice on the "proposed claim" fell on deaf ears.

OH suggests they prod off and go and find another lawyer or call "claims for you direct" or some other two bit law factory with no scruples and see if they'll do a no win no fee effort, they then said a "switched on brief" will sort it. Hmmmmm , where have I heard that before?

Rent a place of ours out?............I'd rather have my buttocks rubbed with a jagged, hot brick than deal with the great unwashed sunseekers

Anyone watch Benidorm?

Oooops, edited to add, the programme not the poster!

[Retro P]

Is there anyone else here who thinks it's pretty dumb to walk into a door that you already know is there

[julian]

I guess it depends on whether it was deliberate to make a few quick bucks !

[patricia]

I guess it depends on whether it was deliberate to make a few quick bucks !

How do you get on with your people in wheel chairs! are you always such a bully! personally I would not let you loose with an empty wheel chair never mind with some one it it. No wonder your operate from Spain.

[Bongtrees]

Is there anyone else here who thinks it's pretty dumb to walk into a door that you already know is there

Its not dumb it was just an accident thats all. People walk into things, drop things trip over etc accidently.

People become cynical/suspicious when others want to profit from their accident/2 left feet/clumsiness.

The only people who really profit from this type of claim are the lawyers who in turn bombard the masses with advertising to gain work. So in many cases bringing out the greed in people who ordinarily would have been too embarrassed to say they had walked into a door and hurt themselves..

[lulubel]

Personally, as a tenant, I don't understand why anyone should be able to hold their landlord liable for their own "stupidity" (for want of a better word).

In our last house, there was a low beam that we were constantly hitting our heads on. We knew it was there, we were stupid enough to keep standing up right underneath it. Our fault. Neither of us would ever have considered trying to sue the landlord for not putting hazard tape on it (or whatever).

This might seem a bit off-topic, but when I was doing my driving instructor's training, my trainer pointed out to me that I should always get my pupils to check there was nothing coming before going through a green light. His words were something like, "Would you stake your life on someone else stopping at a red light?"

The moral of this story being that the litigation culture that's invaded the UK in the last few years is dangerous. People don't always obey the law. You need to take responsibility for your own safety if you want to stay safe and alive.

If I walked through a glass door that I knew was there - even if it was an accident - I wouldn't consider suing the owner of the door, regardless of whether it should have been safety glass or not. Because it was my fault I walked through it, no-one else's.

(Not really directed at you, Rogue, because you were just asking a question. Just a rant about litigation culture.)