Community debt

[beachbabe]

Hi we have a frustrating situation with a long term (3 year) debt for community fees. The story goes something like this:

1. Original owner sold house to a spanish guy.

2. Land registry never changed so still shows original owner.

3. Numerous and lengthy (c 1 year) attempt to track down original owner. No luck - including a comprehensive search for a spanish bank account.

4. Legal procedings lodged with court last year. Due to be processed by court this October (just a one year delay in Torrox!).

5. Legal procedings (to take a charge(?) against the property) name the original owner (on the land registry.)

6. Now found out the name of the "real owner" who, according to the town hall does this all the time. And NEVER gets his name on the land register.

7. The community administrator thinks we still go ahead with lodging the claim in the court, even though we know the name on the application is not the "real" owner.

So, any ideas? What happens. Can we ever recover the debt? Is there no way under spanish law we can make a claim against the "real owner" (who now has a very pleasant tenant paying rent every month to the s*d.)?

Has anyone experienced anything remotely similar? I guess the court will advise in October but, come on guys, give some optimistic replies - PLEASE!

[sick and tired]

El Cobrador Del Frac (www.elcobradordelfrac.com) we used these with some success in debt collecting but it was from a person who had a standard job, and located in one place they are legally quite forceful but suspect if its a habitual dodger not likely to scare/shame him

[Parilla]

Beachbabe, it sounds as if you have got yourself an absolute blinder there !

How do you know the "real owner" is the "new owner", if the name on the register is still the "original owner" ? I thought the register was the definitive proof of ownership.

Do you know if the original owner is still in Spain, or elsewhere ?

Parilla

[beachbabe]

The original owner has disappeared. Putting your name on the land registry is entirely optional in Spain. All it means is the original owner (still on the land registry) can sell the property again and if the new buyer puts his name on the registry that's that!!!!

We know who the real owner is from other documentation, he has been identified and he is the guy to whom the cheques are made out to by the tenant.

[Colinm]

Could you put some 'pressure' on the tenant to with-hold some of the monthly rent and pay it to the community against the arrears?

[Parilla]

Don't forget Beachbabe, that the "new owner" is responsible for any unpaid community fees in the year
he buys the property, plus the whole of the previous year, whether or not he has registered his purchase.
I still don't understand the advantage to this person in not registering - do you know what this is ? If he is well known to the people at the Registro for not doing this, he must have a huge property portfolio all bought for cash, and all at risk of fraud.
You didn't say about the previous owner, but if he is a Brit and has done a midnight back to the UK, there are UK based lawyers who can do tracing, and take court action in the UK system rather than the Spanish courts.

Parilla

[carrowcrin]

to me there is something more going on here as you say you cannot find a bank account, you also say that the rent is paid by cheque.
if it were me i would have a chat with whoever is writing the cheques and if they co-operate they can find out the bank these cheques are being lodged into, i am sure at that if you ever get to that stage you will have made considerable progress.

[beachbabe]

OK, assume non of the complications raised.

At what time is the debt recovered assuming the debt is on a property and all other debts (mortgage, utilities etc) are being serviced as per contract. For example the owner has paid for the electricity and water to be re-connected to this apartment.

When would I receive my money? When would the property be threatened with forced auction (someone mentioned total debt has to be 40% of Catastral value for eg) if the owner persistently and for years refused to pay legitimite community bills.

I am wondering this as, given the economic climate, we may have other owners who simply refuse to pay.

Is there basically no legal enforcement method, to enforce payment of a genuine, asset related debt, where the owner has no financial difficulties? Timescales for any and all of this from anyone who knows the law, please?

[gus]

You refer to a community debt at the start and then ask when / how you can get back "your" money. Which is it?

[beachbabe]

Community debt. Wrong words. "our money", "its money" probably moe accurate.

Quite straightforward leaving aside all other cmplications: Community fees not paid for 3 years.