Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

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Lavanda
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby Lavanda » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:25 pm

Generally the tax office doesn't take ignorance as an excuse


I'm not so sure. Sometimes you may find that you know a bit more than the tax office and they can be very nice and helpful. I agree that once you go down the declaration route you cannot very well stop but you can't just do nothing. Suppose Podemos win the election in November and take even more draconian action against asset owners who have not declared? Bite the bullet, plead ignorance but as one now seeking help and enlightenment. Good luck and let us know how this all turns out for you.

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gerryh
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby gerryh » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:44 pm

El Cid wrote:The gestor who submitted your income tax return (hopefully you didn't ignore that as well) should have told you about the possible need to submit an asset declaration.

Sid

You've got me worried now.
I live full time in Spain and submit an income tax return.
Should I also be submitting a 720 Asset declaration?
The only property I own is the house I live in. I have some small bank investments here in Spain, the interest is declared on my income tax return.
I have a UK OAP and a company pension from the UK, both are declared on my income tax return.
Cheers
Gerry
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El Cid
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby El Cid » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:48 pm

It only applies to assets not in Spain.

The most likely situation is Expats who have retained property in the UK.

Sid

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gerryh
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby gerryh » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:04 pm

OK, but can the tax office claim that my UK OAP and company pension, which are both derived in the UK and not Spain, should be declared on the 720 Asset declaration?
They already declared on my Spanish income tax declaration.
I know I am being pedantic but I can see why people get confused/ don't know what and where they should be declaring what.
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Gerry
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby infoseeker » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:43 pm

Gerry, there are numerous forums which show the categories of assets which apply to the 720, so there should be no confusion as to what it is.
Since it began in 2012 we have seen the subject discussed in great length on this forum, which should clear up any questions.
It is a declaration of your assets outside Spain
It does not apply to your OAP, or your company pension
Blevins Franks gives a concise summary of the categories if you go to their site

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gerryh
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby gerryh » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:16 pm

Hi infoseeker
I think you are missing the point I was trying to make, granted I didn't make myself clear.
If someone doesn't actively read forums or consult "specialists", how does know what declarations they should make for what and to who?
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Gerry
Gerry Harris

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby infoseeker » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:52 pm

Do you not read expat press or listen to the radio?
Even if you don't do this your accountant should know about it.
In Spain, no one comes to you with a handy check list
So many changes in rules in Spain since we've been here , it is hard to keep up and informed, but the only way we have of doing this is to read forums, read newspapers , look online etc.

El Cid
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby El Cid » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:01 pm

gerryh wrote:OK, but can the tax office claim that my UK OAP and company pension, which are both derived in the UK and not Spain, should be declared on the 720 Asset declaration?
They already declared on my Spanish income tax declaration.
I know I am being pedantic but I can see why people get confused/ don't know what and where they should be declaring what.
Cheers
Gerry


Gerry, I am surprised that you haven't read the FAQ on the subject.

http://www.andalucia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=30699

Sid

starrfl0wer
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby starrfl0wer » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:30 am

El Cid wrote:
starrfl0wer wrote: Or is it just one overall fine of 1.500?


It is for not submitting the declaration - how many assets were on the form is irrelevant.

The gestor who submitted your income tax return (hopefully you didn't ignore that as well) should have told you about the possible need to submit an asset declaration.

Sid



Well, I have been submitting the tax return every year, but I have been doing it myself and have not been declaring my bank accounts abroad since I thought the declaration only pertains to Spain. That probably doesn't help the situation. :(

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby BenTen » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:02 pm

I have just moved to Barcelona (may 2014) - went to go see a gestor last week who told me all about this lovely 720 form I had just missed the deadline for!

He has advised me not to file it late - is he talking rubbish? Should I get a new gestor?

What fine should i expect - he said it would be horrendous!

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby infoseeker » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:05 pm

I think. It's 1,500 euros
But if you wait till next year won't the tax office fine you anyway for not submitting the year before?

BenTen
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby BenTen » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:43 pm

I would have thought they would fine me more for not doing it at all - thats why i don't understand why my gestor is telling me not to do it?

He said the fine on my undeclared assets will be huge as they will be treated as undeclared automatically just because I filed the 720 late - seemed a bit odd to me but i assumed he knew what he was talking about?
:?: :?:

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby El Cid » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:39 pm

I don't think he is right.

If they found your assets before you filed late, then yes, you could be in deep trouble, but if you actually make a declaration, albeit late, they can hardly fine you for non declaration.

Ask him if he is prepared to indemnify you personally for any fines etc if his advice proves to be wrong.

I suggest you talk to another gestor.

Sid

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby BenTen » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:07 pm

Thanks sid,

I have made an appointment to see another gestor this week, I'll update when I know more...

Parilla
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby Parilla » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:05 am

I'm assuming that you only became tax resident here on your arrival last May, and therefore that the assets in question were acquired before your arrival. If you can prove those assets to have been legitimately acquired before coming to Spain, your potential liability would only be fines for late declaration (1500 I think) and non-declaration (5000 per account per class, min 10,000).

The assets would not be considered undeclared income, therefore no tax or penalties would be levied.

Parilla

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby infoseeker » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:59 pm

Only?
Still a horrendous amount of money!
Better he sends in a late return than get into trouble next year
Find a proper accountant, Ben Ten

Lavanda
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby Lavanda » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:03 pm

Thank goodness it's not just me thinking that, Parilla. A person cannot be late with a declaration when they were not here (yet) at the time of the deadline for sending in the information. :crazy:

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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby infoseeker » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:25 pm

If Ben Ten arrived last May then he should have submitted the 720 before March 31st this year for the year 2014.

Parilla
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby Parilla » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:04 am

You are right Infoseeker, late/non-declaration fines are substantial, but I said "only" because the other penalties could be life changing for most people.

If an asset is undeclared, and it cannot be proved to have been legally acquired before becoming tax resident in Spain, it will be treated as income arising in the last statute barred tax year, say 2010.

I can't exactly remember tax allowances and rates for that year, but if you take the example say of an undeclared property in the UK valued at E 250K, 2010 income tax at the top rate would be at least E 90K plus a 150% fine of E 135K, plus 4 years interest on the E 90K and you are looking at a total sum of at least E 250K, wiping out the value of the asset.

That would make a pretty big mess of most people's lives, and if the asset/s were higher value than E 250K, not out of the question theses days, you could be looking at a criminal prosecution, and a fair chance of an all inclusive break at the state's expense.

Parilla

Lavanda
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Re: Tax Form 720 Asset declaration

Postby Lavanda » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:09 am

Do we know of anyone that this nightmare senario has happened to?


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