CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
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fyfin
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CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby fyfin » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:09 pm

I have been helping my friends, based on my own experience, to register with the Oficina de Extranjeros at Almeria and thought we had it all sorted but his wife's application has not been accepted today although his sailed through.

The reason was that the marriage certificate was not current, a concept slightly alien to me as the certificate was an original dated when they got married. They wanted this to substantiate proof of income as she is dependant on his State pension which is more than adequate for a couple. There was plenty of evidence that she is a dependant e.g. same address on Empadronamiento, S1 form shows as dependant, NIE forms same address, joint bank account details supplied etc etc but to no avail.

Now, correct me if I am wrong but a certified copy (which the British Embassy told them to obtain) will have a current date stamp but is absolutely not evidence that she is a dependant and doesn't even prove that that are together or still married so what a stupid piece of bureaucracy.

Has anyone else come across this as it certainly didn't happen when we registered, in fact, we weren't even asked for a marriage cert at all.
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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby gus-lopez » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:57 am

A marriage certificate is a marriage certificate, issued once when you marry. In situations like this I just ask for the 'Hojas de reclamación' , lo & behold boss appears & it's all sorted.
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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby fyfin » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:39 pm

It gets worse!!! They have just been told that it must be translated into Spanish! For goodness sake , the names are there and it must be obvious what it is.

They are getting very *beep* off now as they are trying to do the right thing but it seems every time one thing gets sorted another obstacle appears. The translator said that this is to stop multiple wives claims or some similar drivel. We are EU citizens and have the right to move freely but it appears they are within their rights according to the British Embassy.
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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby IreneD » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:56 pm

We didn't have to show ours. Madness! No wonder they are peeved.

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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby fyfin » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:47 pm

I know Irene, and we didn't have to show ours except when we got to the INSS office and there was no question of it being translated or "current" - Maybe we were lucky after all.
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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby gus-lopez » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:50 pm

fyfin wrote:I know Irene, and we didn't have to show ours except when we got to the INSS office and there was no question of it being translated or "current" - Maybe we were lucky after all.

Same here . I asked what was wanted & whether it required translating & no was the answer!
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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby fyfin » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:55 am

Just depends on who you get which is so frustrating!
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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby jhonie99 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:05 pm

I presume that they want an Apostille for the document, which in effect gets the country that the document originated from to verify its authenticity.

Otherwise it's just a piece of paper which could be out of date, not reflecting the current state of the relationship.

There are a lot of fake relationships out there, exisiting solely to gain some benefits or other.

My OH works in the system. There are rules to follow. He comes across fraud on a daily basis. Going to another funcionario usually doesn't work as they communicate with each other all the time (intranet) (particularly in the small offices) passing on information, etc.

In his office (INSS), he would request an Apostille for the marriage cert.

In the case you describe, it's possible that the translator is the problem. They usually know very little and even less Spanish and they also like multiple visits as it's means more money for them.
Again, my OH has direct experience of them and will talk directly with the customer in English, even when a translator is present.

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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby fyfin » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:19 pm

I totally agree but the British Embassy simply told them to request a certified copy from the GRO (general Register Office). This will prove nothing as it is just a copy of the original and doesn't confirm the current relationship.
BUT, surely having joint names on the Escritura, S1 forms stating she is a dependant, same addresses and surnames on the Padron and also NIE, and joint bank account established in Spain 9 years should go some way to proving she is a current dependant. Why would they need a marriage certificate in the first place?
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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby IreneD » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:30 pm

That's what I was thinking, Fyfin. Surely if the names on the marriage certificate are the same as on all the other documents, which are accepted as proof of identity, that should be sufficient? Clearly, the couple are still together...........

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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby El Cid » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:35 pm

Is there not an alternative office in Almeria province that you could try?

They seem to invent the rules as they go along and a different office may have different rules.

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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby White Horse » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:48 pm

El Cid wrote:Is there not an alternative office in Almeria province that you could try?

They seem to invent the rules as they go along and a different office may have different rules.

Sid

No there is not, but some people travel from Almería, (as I did) to the Policia Nacional office in Baza and get much more reasonable treatment.

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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby El Cid » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:20 pm

Granada province does seem to have some good options - the office in Motril is very good - no queues and sensible people behind the desks.

Can you actually sign on in a province where you do not live?

Sid

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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby White Horse » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:46 pm

El Cid wrote:Granada province does seem to have some good options - the office in Motril is very good - no queues and sensible people behind the desks.

Can you actually sign on in a province where you do not live?

Sid

Definitely! It has been done!

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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby scampicat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:56 am

They make the rules up as they go along. Try another office/officer.

This is my considered advice.

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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby fyfin » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:22 am

My friend's wife is now getting more advice from some advisor locally and she is the type that takes everything to heart so I really feel sorry for her. My advice to her was to simply go back again with the translated marriage certificate which is a certified copy from the GRO. Then to also take the Nota Simple (as someone else on this site did successfully) which will show her as joint owner of a property (no mortgage) worth at least €50,000 and maybe this new document along with the marriage cert will satisfy them.
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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby fyfin » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:04 pm

Well, an update, my friend has finally obtained her little green card after being able to convince them she is still married. She had to send off to UK for a certified copy (the original was not current??? , then when it was delivered from UK to Spain she had to send it back to be legalised. Then when it was back with her in Spain it had to be sent to a traductor jurado to be officially translated and this was what was graciously accepted as evidence of marriage.

The point to me is that there was so much other evidence that they were married including the original marriage certificate that I can't see how all of the certification and legalisation makes it any better i.e all it proves is that the marriage certificate is genuine, not that they are, in fact, still married but Hey it worked. Halleujah!
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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby IreneD » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:54 am

Good news, fyfin, your friends must feel so relieved but ridiculous they had to go to such lengths.

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Re: CURRENT MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE?? EX-18

Postby fyfin » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:38 am

Indeed Irene and like you the next thing is to go to the INSS office and take everything with them to get registered for Healthcare. Because the husband is in receipt of a UK State pension they should have no problems.

We have to wait until March when we will have been residents for 1 year before we can try the "convenio especial" route - that might be fun!
A man likes his wife to be just clever enough to appreciate his cleverness, and just stupid enough to admire it


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